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Music => Music News => Topic started by: JohnnyRoyale on March 12, 2009, 01:33:57 AM

Title: Jack White forms another supergroup
Post by: JohnnyRoyale on March 12, 2009, 01:33:57 AM
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 :o
Title: Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
Post by: Kwyjibo on March 14, 2009, 09:16:38 PM
Quote
The album was recorded in only 3 weeks, which is pretty typical for Jack White.

Because recording an album in the normal/reasonable amount of time might result in a professional sounding album.  Can't have that.
Title: Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
Post by: JohnnyRoyale on March 15, 2009, 05:04:23 AM
Quote
The album was recorded in only 3 weeks, which is pretty typical for Jack White.

Because recording an album in the normal/reasonable amount of time might result in a professional sounding album.  Can't have that.

Yeah, like Chinese Democracy
Title: Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
Post by: Kwyjibo on March 15, 2009, 09:26:01 PM
Could you have picked a less "normal" musician than Axl to use as a comparison?  That's like saying all black people are white, just look at Michael Jackson.
Title: Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
Post by: Nate on March 15, 2009, 10:23:26 PM
Quote
The album was recorded in only 3 weeks, which is pretty typical for Jack White.

Because recording an album in the normal/reasonable amount of time might result in a professional sounding album.  Can't have that.

Actually, it's quite reasonable to spend a few weeks in there if you do the things that White does, which is lots of pre-production and sketching out what the songs are going to sound like.  Don't see how getting your shit together so you don't spend lots of time and money is unprofessional...

What I would really like to see from White is another Loretta Lynn album.  He said he was going to do three with her.  Grrrr...
Title: Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
Post by: JohnnyRoyale on March 15, 2009, 10:41:04 PM
3 is his magic number, so give him time on that Loretta album. I'll bet you he'll end up having a third child too.

Like Nate said, if you think about it, other than the physical drumming, most of the songs are Jack's anyhow, so he can construct and write the guitar parts on a bus, though I believe he creates all songs on piano first, then transforms them.

I like the rustic sound of it just being basic on those albums they did quickly. Elephant is one of them and it's often considered their best. Though White Blood Cells is my favorite....another made fast.
Title: Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
Post by: frizgolf on March 16, 2009, 08:10:06 AM
I don't mind if it takes him an hour as long as he keeps putting out a raw sound that isn't raw for the sake of it. I get the impression he has so much music floating around in his head that quick is the only way he'll get it out.
Title: Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
Post by: Dan on March 16, 2009, 11:09:21 AM
It only took the Beatles two takes to nail their famous "Twist and Shout" recording. Sometimes it just clicks?
Title: Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
Post by: JohnnyRoyale on March 18, 2009, 10:52:55 PM
I was thinking about this today: If the Stripes do release another album this year, as rumored, then if you add up all of their albums (6) plus the potential, the 2 Raconteurs' albums, the Dead Weather album and the Loretta Lynn album, then Jack White has pretty much made 11 albums since 1999, and that's not counting the work he did on the movie Cold Mountain, the Coca Cola ad, the James Bond theme.....

That's a pretty incredible stat. It's obvious the Stripes will go to the Hall of Fame, but more deserving would be just Jack White. But I guess he'd have to officially put out albums alone as Jack White for that. Right?

I know I toot his horn a lot, but that whole 11 albums thing really opened my eyes today. I think we're watching a true legend at work and he probably hasn't even scratched the surface on work to come. And I think he's doing it rather quietly and people aren't really focusing on the bigger picture. It's just "Oh, another new album by Jack White."

I'm thinking when we look back, he's going to be labeled the most important musician of our generation.
Title: Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
Post by: Ella Minnow Pea on March 19, 2009, 12:18:40 AM
Until recently, Ryan Adams was keeping up with him in number of albums released - 11 since 2000 (post Whiskeytown). He also produced an album for Willie Nelson. Not that I'm a big fan, but I do support my former local musician.
Title: Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
Post by: JohnnyRoyale on March 19, 2009, 12:59:32 AM
Until recently, Ryan Adams was keeping up with him in number of albums released - 11 since 2000 (post Whiskeytown). He also produced an album for Willie Nelson. Not that I'm a big fan, but I do support my former local musician.

Although I'm not a fan of Adams, that is impressive as well.

New doc: http://www.itmightgetloud.com/index.html
Title: Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
Post by: Kwyjibo on March 19, 2009, 08:49:05 AM
Must. Fight. Urge. To. Disagree.
Title: Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
Post by: rva on March 19, 2009, 12:01:45 PM
It's obvious the Stripes will go to the Hall of Fame, but more deserving would be just Jack White.

To put this in some perspective:

Number of top ten singles

White Stripes: 0
Lady Gaga: 1
Nickelback: 6
Britney Spears: 7
Kelly Clarkson: 8

This is not to say that any of these other acts are better or that sales are all that matter.  But it highlights the fact that well, no one really listens to The White Stripes.  And for you to be a significant part of music history, no matter how talented you might be, someone has to have actually heard your stuff.

Almost everyone has heard a Britney Spears song, or a Kelly Clarkson song.  And because of that they've both been influential.  Can Spears or Clarkson actually take that much credit for Miley Cyrus, High School Musical, Carrie Underwood, AI, etc.?  Probably not.  In terms of the actual music, Max Martin without a doubt pulls more strings.  But without Britney, does Max Martin get his big break?  If Clarkson had stiffed, would AI still be popular?

So I think the reality is that Britney Spears and Kelly Clarkson are more likely to go into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame than The White Stripes or Jack White.




Title: Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
Post by: Juliana on March 19, 2009, 05:25:57 PM
Bob Pollard writes at least 100 songs a day
Title: Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
Post by: matt on March 19, 2009, 08:07:59 PM
...while on the toilet.
Title: Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
Post by: Nate on March 19, 2009, 09:36:47 PM
Wendell, you could say the same about the Stooges in terms of 'hits.'  What made them important was how influential they were, and while it's still way too early to tell what kind of impact they'll have in future generations, I think the idea of popularity as determined by the Billboard charts becomes more irrelevant the longer time goes on.

And re: Ryan Adams.  He's made some bad records over the last ten years.  White has made 1 (the last Raconteurs album).  I think Jack has eclipsed him.
Title: Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
Post by: JohnnyRoyale on March 19, 2009, 10:37:09 PM


And re:   White has made 1

Must. Fight. Urge. To. Disagree.        ;D

  If Clarkson had stiffed, would AI still be popular?

If there really was a God, that would have happened!

I hear what you're saying with top ten singles, but I doubt Radiohead has had a lot either. Should they get in? I agree with Nate that top ten singles is irrelevent anymore. You will never find a person in the music industry that thinks Spears is more deserving than the Stripes or White. Never. And we can only hope that will be the case come voting day.

On top of writing most of the songs, performing them, editing them (often with splice tape), arranging song orders and designing the artwork for his albums, acted in movies and worked with Beck and Electric Six, got married and had 2 kids, beat up some guy from the Von Bondies, White has also produced the following albums the past 10 years:

As producer
The White Stripes (1999) the White Stripes
De Stijl (2000) the White Stripes
Soledad Brothers (2000) Soledad Brothers
White Blood Cells (2001) the White Stripes
Do Rabbits Wonder? (2003) Whirlwind Heat[40]
Elephant (2003) the White Stripes
Van Lear Rose (2004) Loretta Lynn
Get Behind Me Satan (2005) the White Stripes
Red and Black EP (2005) the Muldoons
Sewed Soles (2005) The Greenhornes[40]
Broken Boy Soldiers (2006) the Raconteurs
Icky Thump (2007) the White Stripes
Consolers of the Lonely (2008) the Raconteurs
Horehound (2009) the Dead Weather

That's pretty god damn impressive.
Title: Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
Post by: rva on March 19, 2009, 11:11:05 PM
But that's my point.  It's far too early to say the White Stripes are "obviously" going to the Hall of Fame or that Jack White is going to be the most influential artist of our generation.  

It took many years of successive generations listening to Stooges at some point in their lives for their influence to be felt.  And quite frankly, while I love The Stooges I think history has been massively re-written at least several times to create the idea that the Stooges were the forefathers of punk.  

But at least The Stooges could be classified as punk, and punk became huge, and they were an early icon in the punk scene.  What are White Stripes doing?  They're playing recycled Zeppelin riffs from recycled blues songs.  I really don't foresee a "garage blues" mania hitting the nation in the next few years.   Rock is kind of dead.  Unfortunately.

I don't have much confidence in this, but if I had to guess, I'd say in 10-15 years we'll be hearing even more hip-hop or at least hip-hop influence and more electronic shit.  And if we're hearing more hip-hop, doesn't Jay-Z have like three times the Grammy nods, three times the album sales, three times the output, and  at least equal respect within his genre and from critics?

It's not like I think Jack White sucks.  It's just the reality that the kind of stuff we like is on the fringes.  And yeah, there are always acts like Elvis Costello, VU, Talking Heads, Stooges, and a few others that leave a lasting impression on the critics and aspiring musicians so that their influence is much larger than their sales.... the odds are for any individual act are against it.  It's like a lottery ticket.  Someone's going to win it, but probably not you.  Even if you're TVOTR or White Stripes or Death Cab for Cutie.

I personally don't care which act eclipses which other one.  I like the White Blood Cells, but I like Execution of All Things even more.  Rilo Kiley is not going to the Hall of Fame.  They've had some crossover success, but even less than White Stripes.  Janet Weiss has to have at least as many albums out as Jack White between Quasi, Steven Malkmus, Sleater-Kinney and Bright Eyes.  And I mean, those are some indie heavyweights right there.  S-K and Pavement/Malkmus are right up there in that rarefied indie space with White Stripes.  But the truth is, no one gives a shit about Sleater-Kinney or Rilo Kiley and neither act is going to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.*

Who cares?  We like, that's all that matters.  






*Actually, S-K has an outside shot.  But only because there's a chance everyone will rewrite history and make it seem like they're the only all-woman band that ever rocked and that every female rocker after them was totally influenced by them or wouldn't be around without them.  Except we know it's not true.  We know for all their critical acclaim they didn't even make a dent in the popular subconscious and the great acts that were "influenced" by S-K, are really going to be influenced by what some critic WROTE about S-K because they weren't even around during the S-K heyday.  Because if they were, they'd already be big right now.
Title: Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
Post by: rva on March 19, 2009, 11:29:10 PM
I hear what you're saying with top ten singles, but I doubt Radiohead has had a lot either.

Radiohead is not a singles band, in a very unique way that absolutely does NOT apply to White Stripes.   They do however have three #1 albums and another #2.  That's just in the US.  Europe and the rest of the world is a whole different matter.  Radiohead sells out stadiums at $60 a seat.  They're one of the largest bands in the world right now, so they're playing on a whole 'nother level.

Quote
You will never find a person in the music industry that thinks Spears is more deserving than the Stripes or White. Never.

I think you're dead wrong.   In fact, I think you could probably find more people that think Lil' Wayne should be in than would argue for White Stripes.  Look at the roster of the major labels.  And you can't say no popular music sounds like White Stripes because they are so unique.  Rest assured the labels would be more than happy to sign a bunch of pale imitations and shove it down our throats if they thought it would sell.
Title: Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
Post by: Nate on March 20, 2009, 12:33:12 AM
And now I go back the other way by saying why is the rock & roll fame any sort of barometer as to a band's 'success?'
Title: Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
Post by: JohnnyRoyale on March 20, 2009, 01:36:02 AM
But that's my point.  It's far too early to say the White Stripes are "obviously" going to the Hall of Fame or that Jack White is going to be the most influential artist of our generation.  

I PERSONALLY THINK THAT EVEN IF THEY STOPPED RECORDING NOW, THE ALBUMS THEY MADE WOULD GET THEM IN. ON EACH SONG, THEY TRY TO RE-INVENT THEMSELVES. AC/DC, JACK JOHNSON, NOT SO MUCH.

AS FOR THE MOST INFLUENTIAL, I SEE NO ONE ELSE WHO HAS EVEN COME CLOSE TO ACCOMPLISHING WHAT HE'S DONE. UNLESS HE DIES YOUNG, OR QUITS (AND I REALLY DOUBT THAT) THEN HE'S ON PACE FOR MAKING A TOTAL OF 40+ ALBUMS OVER THE NEXT 30 YEARS. ONE OTHER POINT I FORGOT TO MENTION IS HE FORMED HIS OWN LABEL AND DESIGNED THE BUILDING FROM THE GROUND UP.


But at least The Stooges could be classified as punk, and punk became huge, and they were an early icon in the punk scene.  What are White Stripes doing?  They're playing recycled Zeppelin riffs from recycled blues songs.  I really don't foresee a "garage blues" mania hitting the nation in the next few years.   Rock is kind of dead.  Unfortunately.

STEVIE RAY PLAYED RECYCLED JIMI SONGS AND PUT A RECYCLED TEXAS BLUES SOUND INTO THEM. BUT NOT A TON OF PEOPLE HAVE COPIED HIS STYLE. BUT HE WAS ONE OF THE BEST MUSICIANS OF THE 80s. CAN'T ARGUE MUCH ON THE ROCK IS KINDA DEAD THING THOUGH...

Who cares?  We like, that's all that matters.  

AGREED

Title: Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
Post by: JohnnyRoyale on March 20, 2009, 01:59:47 AM
Radiohead is not a singles band, in a very unique way that absolutely does NOT apply to White Stripes.   They do however have three #1 albums and another #2.  That's just in the US.  Europe and the rest of the world is a whole different matter.  Radiohead sells out stadiums at $60 a seat.  They're one of the largest bands in the world right now, so they're playing on a whole 'nother level.

I don't think the Stripes are a singles band either. I think if they really wanted to, they'd sign to Capitol records and have every song bludgeoned and put on every other radio station in the country. Or allow them to be sold as ringtones. But they don't want that and they don't do it. And they sell out all their shows as well, yet I'll be if they toured as infrequently as Radiohead, they could easily get $60 or more per seat. They do play festivals, but I really doubt we'll ever see them play stadiums due to the nature of their sound/size. It just doesn't fit.

I think you're dead wrong.   In fact, I think you could probably find more people that think Lil' Wayne should be in than would argue for White Stripes.  Look at the roster of the major labels.  And you can't say no popular music sounds like White Stripes because they are so unique.  Rest assured the labels would be more than happy to sign a bunch of pale imitations and shove it down our throats if they thought it would sell.

No way. There CAN'T be anyone who can say that Spears is a better artist, which includes composing, creating, performing, delivering, all in one. If they say that, then they are simply saying it just because they don't like the White Stripes and they are being spiteful. Rock Hall, industry rep, radio dj, tickemaster ceo, bum on the street. No one. She does not sing well, or write her own material, or play any instruments. She can dance. Fuck that.

As for Lil Wayne, I honestly don't know much about him and wouldn't know a song of his if it was playing. Hip Hop/Rap is just not my thing. And yes, I do give that unique factor to them. I've listened to their songs a lot, and there are so many different instruments, chord changes, odd lyric insterts and just flat out catchy songs. ANYONE could have created the chords to Seven Nation Army, but no one else did. I can't tell you how many musicians I've talked to over the years who say "yeah, it's basic and easy and I always think 'how come i didn't think of that' but it's actually more carefully structured than people give them credit for"

Who knows what the Rock Hall will do, and I think we can all agree that plenty of artists will/won't get in/out that deserve it. And we really don't know all of their criteria. But I really think that band is quietly doing things others are not.

And again, more Jack White is. And I will stand tall on that claim of most influential of our generation. I will revisit this thread some 30-40 years from now and see that  I wrote on March 18th that when we look back, he's going to be labeled the most important musician of our generation.

He's doing more things than people really pay attention to, and I think that will all sink in over time. I'm sure a lot of people thought Jimi was amazing when he was alive, but I think (with the help of many live recordings) more people looked back after he was gone and really grasped what he did. Same with Tupac.

There is a reason Jack White was on the cover of Rolling Stone with Mick Jagger and Keith Richards about them "passing the torch" to him. It's because he's the new future, hardest worker, most talented and most creative if you added those all up to one. Not saying he's the most talented artist out there, but if you took all 4 of these and looked for someone else, I don't think there is another.

They didn't pick Lady Gaga, Nickelback, Britney Spears, Kelly Clarkson, Dave Matthews, John Mayer, Lil' Wayne, Bob Pollard, Ryan Adams, Justin Timberlake, Linkin Park, Jonny Lang, Derek Trucks, Coldplay, the Black Keys, or anyone else to be on that cover to pass the torch to.

They chose Jack White.

We're witnessing something special, and it's probably still in infancy. Watch it live.
Title: Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
Post by: frizgolf on March 20, 2009, 07:42:25 AM
Add me to the list of folks who think Jack White has a good chance of getting in the Rock Hall.
Since rock music descends from blues, and White's going back to basics, I think he'll be looked back upon as having redirected rock music somewhat to its roots. Simple chords, blues riffs, catchy tunes. If rock dies, it won't be White's fault.
Title: Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
Post by: Dan on March 20, 2009, 10:16:04 AM
UNLESS HE DIES YOUNG, OR QUITS (AND I REALLY DOUBT THAT) THEN HE'S ON PACE FOR MAKING A TOTAL OF 40+ ALBUMS OVER THE NEXT 30 YEARS.
I know you're speculating, but thinking that any musician will keep up a 'pace' is absurd. Especially for 30 years... the sporting world will tell you time and again that you can never plan that kind of longevity.
Title: Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
Post by: Juliana on March 20, 2009, 01:28:57 PM
I know you're speculating, but thinking that any musician will keep up a 'pace' is absurd. Especially for 30 years... the sporting world will tell you time and again that you can never plan that kind of longevity.

Except for Bob Pollard and his 100 songs a day
Title: Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
Post by: rva on March 20, 2009, 02:10:58 PM
Add me to the list of folks who think Jack White has a good chance of getting in the Rock Hall.
Since rock music descends from blues, and White's going back to basics, I think he'll be looked back upon as having redirected rock music somewhat to its roots. Simple chords, blues riffs, catchy tunes. If rock dies, it won't be White's fault.

And that's why he's on the cover of the Rolling Stone with the Stones.  Not necessarily because he's a star of greater magnitude or talent than any or those other acts, but because he's pulling from the same blues tradition as the Stones did.  

And I would agree as well that if there's a rock revival, that will punch his ticket into the Hall of Fame and being a great influence and all that.  What he has going for him is that he's at the forefront (or is at least the posterboy) for a certain movement/sound with some momentum behind it.  But it's far from assured that rock isn't going to die.  

And I'm not sure Jack White wants to be the savior of rock, either.  I think he may just go into a more folk direction, or just go off into his own weird White Stripes land of odd, novelty-ish, different American "roots" type sounds from all eras.  Bit of folk, bit of cabaret, bit of Led Zep, bit of straight blues and mash it all up.

As a pure guitar player, I think Jack White tends to be massively underrated by guitar players and massively overrated by non-guitar players.  The stuff on the records is ridiculously easy to play, but that doesn't mean that's ALL he can play (this is so NOT true with Meg White).  

You see him live, he opens it up a lot more and can play those Page-esque blues riffs.  Still though, he's a "feel" guy.  And for too many guitarists unless you are faster or more complicated than every other guitar player, you don't count.

For non-guitar players on the other hand, they maybe overly react to "feel."  People are like, well how does he get that BIG sound in this one track?  Answer:  open tuning.  How does he do that weirdo sound where it goes cuts on and off?  Answer:  He's flips the knob on his guitar back and forth real fast to switch pickups on and off.  How does he get that all over the place sound?  Answer:  Digitech Whammy.

They're all sort of standard tricks that most guitar players know.  It's all pentatonic blues riffs which are no secret.  I will say he has a way with that Digitech Whammy pedal.  It's a unique part of his technique.

But anyway, White's strength is that he uses certain tricks and not others, and he uses those tricks at just the right time.  Which is why he's a "feel" player.  It makes it hard to peg his influence or his greatness.  

SRV was a tremendously gifted dude physically.  His hands are huge, and they're also incredibly strong, and he can move his fingers way fast.  I am physically incapable of playing many SRV licks.  Just like I could practice playing football my whole life and lift weights and all that, but I'd never be able to play linebacker in the NFL.

And Hendrix... let's just say that White is not even remotely on the same playing field as Hendrix when it comes to innovating things or putting his own stamp on the way guitar is viewed.  Probably no one is.

So with Hendrix and SRV, both of them at least "wow'ed" a lot of guitar players and had a huge influence within the guitar community or whatever.  In terms of new techniques and sounds if nothing else.  Even if they didn't (particularly in SRV's case) have a larger cultural impact beyond guitar enthusiasts.

Jack White's potential "influence rating" or whatever is all going to be in his cultural impact, and it's just way too early to tell.
Title: Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
Post by: frizgolf on March 20, 2009, 02:31:34 PM
Yeah, if he keeps experimenting, he'll be okay, I think. If he slips into ego or drugs, it could be all over.
Time will tell.
Title: Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
Post by: rva on March 20, 2009, 02:50:09 PM
And now I go back the other way by saying why is the rock & roll fame any sort of barometer as to a band's 'success?'

No.  And I don't even think a band's 'success' matters at all.  

If you like Animal Collective, you like Animal Collective and they are just as good if they're musical geniuses who planned that album or a bunch of idiots who just lucked into that sound.  Or if 500 people listen to them or 5,000,000.  Or if they are massively influential or no one cares.  Or if anyone can do it, or if its just Animal Collective who can do that.

That was my beef with the Hall of Fame article, and about the music writing on the site in general.  You can write about your favorite bands and songs and music that you like.  Or you can try to handle things from a pop culture kind of analytical perspective.  But you can't confuse the two.

Just because JR likes White Stripes, doesn't mean they are obviously going to the Hall of Fame, or that Jack White is going to be a huge influence on the future of music.  Or that everyone in the music business thinks Jack White is better than Britney Spears, or that anyone cares that Jack White writes really basic songs and Britney Spears doesn't write songs at all.

"Indie" music is but one small subset of the overall music scene.  Hip-hop is another, and I doubt that most hip-hop music business people or fans are going to agree that pretty much rap sucks with a few exceptions and Jay-Z is not as talented as Jack White.

For that matter, Lady Gaga has her own legit "cred."  Only it's New York glam-disco-club scene cred.  I'm sure they have as little use for JR's taste in stuff as he does theirs.  And like, I'm totally on JR's side.  I love the White Stripes.  Whereas if the chick next door to me plays "Poker Face" just ONE MORE FUCKING TIME, I'm gonna smash her iPod.

Nonetheless, it's still a sign that there are people out there who lovelovelovelovelove Lady Gaga, and could give a rat's ass about White Stripes.

That's why I always advocated just writing about stuff we like from a subjective viewpoint instead of trying to do more objective pieces and draw any conclusion other than "Gee, I like this."  Because if you try to do the big picture stuff, then you have to go out and listen to country and hip-hop and dance music and none of us want to do that.
Title: Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
Post by: JohnnyRoyale on March 21, 2009, 01:58:48 PM
I know you're speculating, but thinking that any musician will keep up a 'pace' is absurd. Especially for 30 years... the sporting world will tell you time and again that you can never plan that kind of longevity.

By all means. And no, I don't expect him to keep up with that. Though he might. I forgot yet another album he did when he played guitar for The Go.
Title: Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
Post by: JohnnyRoyale on March 21, 2009, 02:12:16 PM
And that's why he's on the cover of the Rolling Stone with the Stones.  Not necessarily because he's a star of greater magnitude or talent than any or those other acts, but because he's pulling from the same blues tradition as the Stones did.  

And I would agree as well that if there's a rock revival, that will punch his ticket into the Hall of Fame and being a great influence and all that.  What he has going for him is that he's at the forefront (or is at least the posterboy) for a certain movement/sound with some momentum behind it.  But it's far from assured that rock isn't going to die.  

And I'm not sure Jack White wants to be the savior of rock, either.  I think he may just go into a more folk direction, or just go off into his own weird White Stripes land of odd, novelty-ish, different American "roots" type sounds from all eras.  Bit of folk, bit of cabaret, bit of Led Zep, bit of straight blues and mash it all up.

As a pure guitar player, I think Jack White tends to be massively underrated by guitar players and massively overrated by non-guitar players.  The stuff on the records is ridiculously easy to play, but that doesn't mean that's ALL he can play (this is so NOT true with Meg White).  

You see him live, he opens it up a lot more and can play those Page-esque blues riffs.  Still though, he's a "feel" guy.  And for too many guitarists unless you are faster or more complicated than every other guitar player, you don't count.

For non-guitar players on the other hand, they maybe overly react to "feel."  People are like, well how does he get that BIG sound in this one track?  Answer:  open tuning.  How does he do that weirdo sound where it goes cuts on and off?  Answer:  He's flips the knob on his guitar back and forth real fast to switch pickups on and off.  How does he get that all over the place sound?  Answer:  Digitech Whammy.

They're all sort of standard tricks that most guitar players know.  It's all pentatonic blues riffs which are no secret.  I will say he has a way with that Digitech Whammy pedal.  It's a unique part of his technique.

But anyway, White's strength is that he uses certain tricks and not others, and he uses those tricks at just the right time.  Which is why he's a "feel" player.  It makes it hard to peg his influence or his greatness.  

SRV was a tremendously gifted dude physically.  His hands are huge, and they're also incredibly strong, and he can move his fingers way fast.  I am physically incapable of playing many SRV licks.  Just like I could practice playing football my whole life and lift weights and all that, but I'd never be able to play linebacker in the NFL.

And Hendrix... let's just say that White is not even remotely on the same playing field as Hendrix when it comes to innovating things or putting his own stamp on the way guitar is viewed.  Probably no one is.

So with Hendrix and SRV, both of them at least "wow'ed" a lot of guitar players and had a huge influence within the guitar community or whatever.  In terms of new techniques and sounds if nothing else.  Even if they didn't (particularly in SRV's case) have a larger cultural impact beyond guitar enthusiasts.

Jack White's potential "influence rating" or whatever is all going to be in his cultural impact, and it's just way too early to tell.

Pretty much agree with all of this and the guitar explainations were spot on. Another point to that is that he writes really catchy guitar licks. In the goofy Rolling Stone Best Guitarist list a couple of years ago, I was pretty pissed to see Kurt Cobain ranked so high (top 10 or close to it). I love Nirvana's music, but the guy was not nearly as good of a technical guitar player as damn near anyone on that list. Hell, even Brad Nowell from Sublime blows him out of the water. However, Cobain wrote very catchy chords, and you usually only need a note or two and you know it's a Nirvana song. I think White does a lot of the same.

But again, I'm not specualting so much on White's "influence rating" but calling him the most important musician of this era. I'm not sold that there are a million kids in garages trying to be Jack White on guitar right now, but I think some of his explorations, guitar playing, song writing, and DIY ethics are probably being mimicked, yes. I know Dr. Dre, and Jay Z, Bob Pollard, Ryan Adams, and producers like Rick Rubin and William. I know they are doing a lot and it's pretty respectable. But I just don't see anyone out there now or in the past 10 years that is doing as much and as unique as White.
Title: Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
Post by: JohnnyRoyale on March 21, 2009, 02:48:44 PM
All of this Rock Hall talk is starting to drive me insane!     ;D   And I'm really only trying to shout my "most important" statement over the Rock Hall stuff. Though I do think I have legit Rock Hall points....

Look, I listen to a lot of music, though not as much as I would like and not as diverse as I should. And yes, I am biased because I love the White Stripes, but in my most honest and sincere tongue, I feel like the music they have already done is enough to get them in the Rock Hall. And if they produce any more, it's just extra votes. The guy has a better voice than he gets credit for, is an amazing song writer in that he has catchy hooks and inserts breaks where they almost don't belong until you listen again. His guitar work: see rva's comments above. They are pretty damn popular and (sadly) are even popping up on butt rock stations now.

I love Cat Power and her voice. I can't get enough of it, and in my opinion, she's a WAY better singer than Patti Smith ever was. But I'm well aware that not only is Patti Smith a more deserving pick, I also get it that Cat Power will never be inducted into that hall. For one, because of her diversity, and secondly, she's probably considered as a dime-a-dozen female vocalist. And that's fine. It doesn't change how I feel about her.

I have never heard a song by the Pretenders that I like, and I honestly would love to see the Soledad Brothers placed into the Hall of Fame as I'm still blown away to this day by what they did. But that's just what I like, and I know I'm kinda dreaming.

I'm not giving that treatment here with the White Stripes. If the things they have done are not enough to get in ( and ALREADY), then I feel sorry for future musicians just starting out because it's going to be about impossible to ever do anything to get in. In fact, I guess the Rock Hall should close the doors in 20 years. And I will also have zero faith in that Hall if this were to happen. You can go down the list of inductees already, and it's a pretty good list. But I've listened to the Stripes hundreds of times, I know their songs and I've focused very carefully. It's a very unique thing happening. That's what I know.



Just because JR likes White Stripes, doesn't mean they are obviously going to the Hall of Fame, or that Jack White is going to be a huge influence on the future of music.  Or that everyone in the music business thinks Jack White is better than Britney Spears, or that anyone cares that Jack White writes really basic songs and Britney Spears doesn't write songs at all.

"Indie" music is but one small subset of the overall music scene.  Hip-hop is another, and I doubt that most hip-hop music business people or fans are going to agree that pretty much rap sucks with a few exceptions and Jay-Z is not as talented as Jack White.



That's not what I'm saying at all. Countless times over the years when I've looked at those Rock Hall lists, I've wondered "Who the hell is that?" because I haven't heard of them. But when I dig a little deeper and read what is printed, it usually makes sense. I'm sure I could be sold pretty easily on how great Lil' Wayne is or on what Jay-Z is doing (though I'm more aware of his accomplishments) but I'm simply not interested in them. The same will probably be for hip hop business folks when they hear the White Stripes are going in. But if they take the time and do a little research, they should respect the nod.

Me personally, I'd be a terrible judge for that event because I'm not diverse enough. That's why they have strict rules, qualifications and a better panel than my judgement. OUR rock hall thing was just for fun. Well, 80% fun, as I put a lot of thought into it.

I only know what I know, and I know that I can make only one nomination right now, and that's the White Stripes. Well, and Radiohead, but that's a whole other ball of wax. I like a LOT of bands, but none of them have done anything worthy enough (yet) to get that cred.

Who knows what Lady Gaga will end up doing and it's way too early for me to judge her on that, though I fucking hate her music.  I will say I'd be surprised if she made it over the Stripes. But Britney, no fucking way. If Debbie Gibson and Tiffany aren't getting in, then neither will Brit. NO respectable person in the business could honestly say she's a better talent than White. Maybe the dj's on stations she plays on, or her fan clubs, or parents, yes.

On another popularity note, do you really think Pearl Jam isn't worthy for at least a nomination some day? They did very un-popular things like refusing to tour (because of Ticketmaster), refusing to make videos and stopped releasing singles. The band even admitted that these things hurt their career. But they are/were pretty damn influential, right?
To the general public, were the Ramones really that popular? Most of my friends don't like them, myself included.



That's why I always advocated just writing about stuff we like from a subjective viewpoint instead of trying to do more objective pieces and draw any conclusion other than "Gee, I like this."  Because if you try to do the big picture stuff, then you have to go out and listen to country and hip-hop and dance music and none of us want to do that.

Well put, and we simply don't have the resources to be more than that....now. I'd like to get to that point some day, but for now we would be "faking" it to do that. We'll see what the future brings.
Title: Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
Post by: Nate on March 21, 2009, 05:55:41 PM
Pearl Jam has also made the Industry a whole lot of money, which seems to be the top overall qualification for entry.
Title: Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
Post by: rva on March 21, 2009, 08:09:41 PM
I don't think there's any doubt Pearl Jam's going in just as soon as their 25 years are up. 

Were they one of the best bands of their generation?  There's Nirvana and Radiohead, but there's no doubt Pearl Jam would be in the top five on most anyone's list.

Did they sell a ton of records?  Yes.

Did they receive critical acclaim to go along with their massive sales?  Yes.

Did they have longevity as well as a great "peak?"  Yes.

Do they have respect of their peers and the music industry?  Yes.
Title: Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
Post by: Kwyjibo on March 21, 2009, 11:19:59 PM
Are they superior in every way to The White Stripes?  Yes.
Title: Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
Post by: Bronzetree on March 22, 2009, 02:47:52 AM
Pearl Jam is a shoe-in. Lady Gaga isn't and won't be on the radar, so it's a moot point. For me, the only good thing about her - and this is true of 99% of the stuff I spin for people - is that her stuff is danceable and people dig it. Otherwise, it's recyclable. She's hot right now, but won't be a couple years from now. Debbie Gibson and Tiffany sold a lot of records, but weren't of any significance culturally or on music in general. Britney, I dunno. I kinda doubt she'll make the Hall, but it won't surprise me if she does. White Stripes? Way too early to tell. Maybe?
Title: Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
Post by: JohnnyRoyale on March 22, 2009, 04:01:31 AM
Are they superior in every way to The White Stripes?  Yes.

But this is strictly just YOUR opinion. MY opinion is that Pearl Jam has made 3 bad albums. MY opinion is that the White Stripes have made one that was okay (debut), but the rest have all been good.

Britney, I dunno. I kinda doubt she'll make the Hall, but it won't surprise me if she does. White Stripes? Way too early to tell. Maybe?

Won't surprise you?? I'll have a god-damn aneurysm! What positive qualities has she put forward that would even remotely qualify her??? Can she sing well? No. Does she writer her own music? No. Is she a role-model to young girls? FUCK no! Can she dance? Yes.

Christina Aguilera is 100x more worthy.

Title: Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
Post by: frizgolf on March 22, 2009, 09:58:29 AM
Are they superior in every way to The White Stripes?  Yes.
If you'd have asked me five years ago, I'd have agreed with you. Now that the stripped-down, back-to-garage sound has nearly reached the critical mass 90s grunge once enjoyed, I think there's no question about White's influence, like him or not.
What once seemed to be a fad now looks to be a simple return to roots.
Title: Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
Post by: rva on March 22, 2009, 02:23:39 PM
Who's making stripped-down, fuzzed out blues jams other than White Stripes?  I mean, even at the indie level?
Title: Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
Post by: Nate on March 22, 2009, 03:52:34 PM
Britney's influence is more cultural than musical.  How many blonde innocent/demure but secretly slutty singers have there been in the last decade?  That's all because of Britney.  It really doesn't matter what she does musically, because she's transcended those boundaries and become an icon in the culture.  She's like Madonna, if Madonna didn't have the work ethic and a calculating intelligence.  It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if Brit is incapable of dressing herself in the morning.  The image is what makes her who she is, which is why most musicgeeks use her as the example of what's wrong with music today.  But they're missing the point when they do that.

And yes, for the record, Christina Aguilera will make it in the HoF, also.  She actually can sing, and seems to be taking the Madonna path in terms of remaking her image evry few years. 

As far as other rock bands we'll see inducted in the next ten years, my money's on...

Bon Jovi
Def Leppard
RHCP
Nirvana
Pearl Jam
Beck
Radiohead
Green Day

I mean, those are obvious choices, based on sales, cultural impact, and grammy nominations.  That's the only criteria that should be used, IMO, because influence in music seems to be a distant 4th.
Title: Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
Post by: Dan on March 22, 2009, 09:50:26 PM
Who's making stripped-down, fuzzed out blues jams other than White Stripes?  I mean, even at the indie level?
Dan Auerbach / Black Keys?
Title: Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
Post by: frizgolf on March 23, 2009, 07:33:39 AM
The Strokes, The Hives, The Ettes... (just as Dan Auerbach comes on woxy as I type)
Yeah, not huge heavy hitters, but I'm thinking White's influence will be felt more along the lines of a return to rock's roots ala blues riffs. Rock was reviled early on for its simplicity and primal instincts. Prudes were afraid their kids would dance in the streets naked or something. I kinda like the stripped down White Stripes sound, but at its most basic, it's all about the blues base. I think then I could throw in Pearlene, Black Mountain, Heartless Bastards, and Buffalo Killers just off the top of my head.
Let's get back to primal beats and dancing in the streets as opposed to staring at our shoes being depressed.
Title: Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
Post by: Juliana on March 23, 2009, 08:28:52 AM
Didn't the Strokes and the Hives really come out about the same time as the White Stripes though?
Title: Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
Post by: rva on March 23, 2009, 09:26:09 AM
Yeah, all three of those bands hit it big simultaneously.  I'd also say The Strokes and The Hives are rooted in that 1980 punk/new wave/pop sound (eg. Cars, Romantics, Knack) which is a bit different than the White Stripes.  And The Strokes seem like they're cooked, which is a shame.  I'd agree the Black Keys are definitely mining the same stuff as Jack White, thugh.

But yeah, the real problem here is even if we include all those bands, it's not exactly the same as Soundgarden, Alice in Chains, Pearl Jam, Nirvana, Stone Temple Pilots, Smashing Pumpkins etc.
Title: Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
Post by: bluebastard on April 25, 2009, 12:55:17 AM
I think Dead Weather is the best Jack White product in quite sometime but I also chalk that up to Alison Mosshart of The Kills being a part of the group--The Kills are great. But I think The Raconteurs are pretty boring and I'd much rather Brendan Benson try to make another Lapalco. I do, however, like the live-to-video cuts "Level" and "Old Enough".

As for the argument this has turned into, The White Stripes may not be doing something that is wholly original but Jack does it his own way with his own style and that accounts for a lot in the industry. And he's proven that he is more than just a one trick pony with side projects and producing credits that don't lean on the 'White Stripes' prototype. C'mon, Van Lear Rose is the finest Loretta Lynn album since she broke into country. We could get sidetracked on how that's more to do with the modern Nashville model and how it churns out pop country prefabness with a shit-eating grin but the point is Jack White clearly has an ear for the older country sound that made Lynn so popular across a wide swatch of demographics in her heyday.

Title: Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
Post by: Dan on April 26, 2009, 10:27:08 AM
I think Dead Weather is the best Jack White product in quite sometime but I also chalk that up to Alison Mosshart of The Kills being a part of the group--The Kills are great. But I think The Raconteurs are pretty boring and I'd much rather Brendan Benson try to make another Lapalco. I do, however, like the live-to-video cuts "Level" and "Old Enough".

As for the argument this has turned into, The White Stripes may not be doing something that is wholly original but Jack does it his own way with his own style and that accounts for a lot in the industry. And he's proven that he is more than just a one trick pony with side projects and producing credits that don't lean on the 'White Stripes' prototype. C'mon, Van Lear Rose is the finest Loretta Lynn album since she broke into country. We could get sidetracked on how that's more to do with the modern Nashville model and how it churns out pop country prefabness with a shit-eating grin but the point is Jack White clearly has an ear for the older country sound that made Lynn so popular across a wide swatch of demographics in her heyday.



This might have been the most interesting post I've read in a while. Thanks, yo!