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Arts and Entertainment => Television Talk => Topic started by: Kwyjibo on January 12, 2010, 08:08:48 AM

Title: NBCs Late Night Lineup Flap
Post by: Kwyjibo on January 12, 2010, 08:08:48 AM
Man, NBC stepped in it, no?  Just reading this New York Post article (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/just_call_him_conan_flyin_ThND8Mdv5MI5Pv8udof1LJ) this morning has me wondering what in the hell they're thinking.  On one hand, Jay kinda got screwed.  NBC pushed him to retire, then realized that was a fuck up and gave him this new show.  But on the other Conan's been given the gig, and the lengths that entire staff has gone to with moving to LA were above and beyond.  Not to mention how much Conan has toned down his act for the new time slot.  Now they're going to go and take their ball back?  Lame.

I hope Fox offers him big money, and I hope The Tonight Show tanks when Conan leaves.  Jay is already fucked, they don't have to fuck Conan too.

And if we didn't have enough proof that NBC is out of ideas here's the last sentence of that article. 

Quote
Gaspin pledged that the network was going "back to basics" and would fill the 10 p.m. hour with dramas, including a new version of "Law & Order," set in LA.

Yup, that most magic of bullets, another Law & Order.
Title: Re: NBCs Late Night Lineup Flap
Post by: Cockney Rebel on January 12, 2010, 08:36:47 AM
Best description I've read was Jay Leno = NBC's "New Coke"
Title: Re: NBCs Late Night Lineup Flap
Post by: Kwyjibo on January 12, 2010, 09:29:26 AM
Actually he might be more like Coke II.  Which is what they called New Coke after they brought old Coke back, as though they thought both would sell.
Title: Re: NBCs Late Night Lineup Flap
Post by: matt on January 12, 2010, 02:55:21 PM
Check out Conan's monologue from last night.  He didn't hold back, and neither did Letterman or Ferguson.  Scroll down to watch theirs.

http://tv.gawker.com/5445941/conan-obrien-eviscerates-nbc-jay-leno-updated-so-do-letterman-and-ferguson

UPDATE:  Conan gives the finger to NBC:

"People of Earth:

In the last few days, Iíve been getting a lot of sympathy calls, and I want to start by making it clear that no one should waste a second feeling sorry for me. For 17 years, Iíve been getting paid to do what I love most and, in a world with real problems, Iíve been absurdly lucky. That said, Iíve been suddenly put in a very public predicament and my bosses are demanding an immediate decision.

Six years ago, I signed a contract with NBC to take over The Tonight Show in June of 2009. Like a lot of us, I grew up watching Johnny Carson every night and the chance to one day sit in that chair has meant everything to me. I worked long and hard to get that opportunity, passed up far more lucrative offers, and since 2004 I have spent literally hundreds of hours thinking of ways to extend the franchise long into the future. It was my mistaken belief that, like my predecessor, I would have the benefit of some time and, just as important, some degree of ratings support from the prime-time schedule. Building a lasting audience at 11:30 is impossible without both.

But sadly, we were never given that chance. After only seven months, with my Tonight Show in its infancy, NBC has decided to react to their terrible difficulties in prime-time by making a change in their long-established late night schedule.

Last Thursday, NBC executives told me they intended to move the Tonight Show to 12:05 to accommodate the Jay Leno Show at 11:35. For 60 years the Tonight Show has aired immediately following the late local news. I sincerely believe that delaying the Tonight Show into the next day to accommodate another comedy program will seriously damage what I consider to be the greatest franchise in the history of broadcasting. The Tonight Show at 12:05 simply isnít the Tonight Show. Also, if I accept this move I will be knocking the Late Night show, which I inherited from David Letterman and passed on to Jimmy Fallon, out of its long-held time slot. That would hurt the other NBC franchise that I love, and it would be unfair to Jimmy.

So it has come to this: I cannot express in words how much I enjoy hosting this program and what an enormous personal disappointment it is for me to consider losing it. My staff and I have worked unbelievably hard and we are very proud of our contribution to the legacy of The Tonight Show. But I cannot participate in what I honestly believe is its destruction. Some people will make the argument that with DVRs and the Internet a time slot doesnít matter. But with the Tonight Show, I believe nothing could matter more.

There has been speculation about my going to another network but, to set the record straight, I currently have no other offer and honestly have no idea what happens next. My hope is that NBC and I can resolve this quickly so that my staff, crew, and I can do a show we can be proud of, for a company that values our work.

Have a great day and, for the record, I am truly sorry about my hair; itís always been that way.

Yours,

Conan"


http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/12/conan-obrien-says-he-wont-do-tonight-show-following-leno/?hp
Title: Re: NBCs Late Night Lineup Flap
Post by: c-lando on January 12, 2010, 06:11:41 PM
The best line from Conan: "NBC announced they plan to lose $200 million on the Winter Olympics next month. Folks, is it just me, or is that story hilarious?"
Title: Re: NBCs Late Night Lineup Flap
Post by: rva on January 12, 2010, 06:40:16 PM
What I find odd is that apparently no one at NBC realized what a stupid "solution" that was.

First, how do you do a 1/2 hour talk show?  That concept is never going to work.  Second, if you MUST try to do a 1/2 hour talk show, Leno is the worst one to pick.  He's the blandest of all the hosts but probably the best with guests.  Conan could just do a 1/2 hour worth of sketches because that's all anyone really cares about on his show anyway.

But mostly, what made you think this was going to make anyone happy?  Leno has a 1/2 hour show now and the slap in the face of his old show having failed.  Conan has to move an hour back, which basically makes him a 1/2 hour show anyway, and Fallon might as well just forget about it.  Just fire a dude and cancel a show.  One dude is angry, two dudes are happy.  Now you have three dudes.  Four if anyone cares about Carson Daly.

I've always secretly liked Leno and think he takes too much shit.  If anyone remembers his old standup, you know he can be quite a bit funnier and edgier if he wants.  But I just feel like he's decided that he's going to try to appeal to a broad audience and that means making genial but not-edgy jokes and being very affable to guests and audience and doing it kind of old-school.  I don't mind that.  We have enough Howard Stern types.  And if it's eleven o'clock at night and I'm going to bed, I don't need any crazy shit going on.  I will drink a cup of pleasant but boring tea while I watch a pleasant but boring talk show.

Conan I generally like, but there are many times I have to turn him off when he struggles through an awful bit, and I never watch his interviews.  Fallon is unwatchable in every way. I really can't stand that guy.  Craig Ferguson I like more than everyone on NBC combined.

Title: Re: NBCs Late Night Lineup Flap
Post by: Nate on January 13, 2010, 04:17:12 AM
Jay's an asshole.

He went on record multiple times saying how he didn't need any more money, how he was fine with whatever NBC was paying him.  NBC's making record dough on his show, and he's fine with letting them take whatever they want?  No one would take that position.  I think Jay was just pissed that he was losing in ratings to cable RERUNS most nights, and bitched and moaned to NBC. 

Conan really had no options, because his ratings have sucked.  Before he went to the Tonight Show, Craig Ferguson was beating him in the ratings.  That wasn't a warning sign to NBC?  What did Conan think was going to happen when he went up against Dave?  He should have kept his ten million a year and STFU.   Now, he's lost his leverage mostly.  I don't know how that letter is going to help him.  It makes him look good in the press, and now forces NBC to either a) let him walk and pay out the rest of his contract or b) pay him an absolutely ridiculous amount of money (start by doubling his salary) and see if he sticks around.  Do you think he'll do that, though? 

And as for Jay only doing a half-hour show, I call bullshit.  His whole point is to try and force Conan to quit.  Good for Conan he's standing up to this.

It would be incredible if he somehow ended up on Comedy Central.  A late-night lineup of Colbert, Stewart, and Conan back to back would be a critical success, not to mention it may end up getting more viewers when you factor in places like Hulu and web views. 

Shame on the media for letting TMZ take the news coverage on this, and for giving NBC a presidential pardon and not questioning this move at all.
Title: Re: NBCs Late Night Lineup Flap
Post by: c-lando on January 13, 2010, 08:30:19 AM
Conan I generally like, but there are many times I have to turn him off when he struggles through an awful bit, and I never watch his interviews.  Fallon is unwatchable in every way. I really can't stand that guy.  Craig Ferguson I like more than everyone on NBC combined.
CBS is where my late night talk show bread is always buttered best. I will always, ALWAYS watch Letterman and Ferguson before anyone on NBC.



But, I do love Jimmy. However, I totally understand that I'm probably the only on these boards that does enjoy his show. I fast-forward through the monologue EVERY time, but enjoy his audience stuff (except LICK IT FOR $10), this interviews (I don't find him awkward or forced AT ALL...well, unless you count the interview with DeNiro...which you shouldn't), his activities with the guests (Beer Pong with Betty White? COME ON!), THE ROOTS, fantastic musical guests backed by The Roots (is there ANYTHING they CAN'T DO?!?!?!) and the silly parodies like THE REAL HOUSEWIVES OF LATE NIGHT. It's the show I would want to be on if someone actually wanted to see me on TV. Well, maybe after Craig. Why must they be on at the same time?!?!?!
Title: Re: NBCs Late Night Lineup Flap
Post by: Buzzstein on January 13, 2010, 11:11:59 AM
What I find odd is that apparently no one at NBC realized what a stupid "solution" that was.

First, how do you do a 1/2 hour talk show?  That concept is never going to work.  Second, if you MUST try to do a 1/2 hour talk show, Leno is the worst one to pick.  He's the blandest of all the hosts but probably the best with guests.  Conan could just do a 1/2 hour worth of sketches because that's all anyone really cares about on his show anyway.

But mostly, what made you think this was going to make anyone happy?  Leno has a 1/2 hour show now and the slap in the face of his old show having failed.  Conan has to move an hour back, which basically makes him a 1/2 hour show anyway, and Fallon might as well just forget about it.  Just fire a dude and cancel a show.  One dude is angry, two dudes are happy.  Now you have three dudes.  Four if anyone cares about Carson Daly.

I've always secretly liked Leno and think he takes too much shit.  If anyone remembers his old standup, you know he can be quite a bit funnier and edgier if he wants.  But I just feel like he's decided that he's going to try to appeal to a broad audience and that means making genial but not-edgy jokes and being very affable to guests and audience and doing it kind of old-school.  I don't mind that.  We have enough Howard Stern types.  And if it's eleven o'clock at night and I'm going to bed, I don't need any crazy shit going on.  I will drink a cup of pleasant but boring tea while I watch a pleasant but boring talk show.

Conan I generally like, but there are many times I have to turn him off when he struggles through an awful bit, and I never watch his interviews.  Fallon is unwatchable in every way. I really can't stand that guy.  Craig Ferguson I like more than everyone on NBC combined.



Yep, that's about right...except that part about Craig Ferguson who I've never found funny (on his show anyway).
Title: Re: NBCs Late Night Lineup Flap
Post by: Dan on January 13, 2010, 11:43:54 AM
Glad to see the love for Craig Ferguson. I'm not much of a TV watcher, so I don't know the difference btwn most of these guys, but lately I've started watching some of the Craig Ferguson segments on youtube and holy crap is that guy funny.

The interview with Mila Kunis (be still my heart) the other day was tremendous.
Title: Re: NBCs Late Night Lineup Flap
Post by: rva on January 13, 2010, 11:53:47 AM
Conan is the funniest by far, if you just go by highlights.  I do not like either Kimmel or Fallon, but I do appreciate that they are creative and try to push the envelop.

No one's monologues are really that great.  I would probably put Ferguson up there with Conan, and well ahead of Fallon and Kimmel in that respect.  Ferguson is funny in a self-deprecating, somewhat subtle, but way.  And mostly Ferguson doesn't do all the bits and sketches and other stuff.  There aren't really great comedy moments on his show, but it is generally entertaining and somewhat funny.  Just not whacky, hilarious kind of funny.

But in the end, it's a talk show.  And I'm most interested to hear what Ferguson has to say and what his guests have to say.  He's the only one I feel who tries to actually connect with his audience and his guests.  The rest of them are just playing characters, and their guests are mostly participating in what is kind of a parody talk show/comedy variety show.

Patton Oswalt took a shot a Jay Leno the other day, saying he couldn't understand why Leno wants a talk show so bad when he doesn't do anything with it.  Probably because he wants a talk show, and is perfectly happy doing a talk show.  Why would he change?

The better question is why Kimmel, Fallon, and to some extent Conan insist on having a talk show when clearly they want a comedy show.  If Conan were giving some free license to just put together a funny show, I bet it would be pretty awesome.  But I doubt it would involve interviewing guests.
Title: Re: NBCs Late Night Lineup Flap
Post by: Dan on January 13, 2010, 12:11:18 PM
But in the end, it's a talk show.  And I'm most interested to hear what Ferguson has to say and what his guests have to say.  He's the only one I feel who tries to actually connect with his audience and his guests.

Case in point:
http://www.youtube.com/user/malinky2stoatir?blend=1&ob=4#p/u/4/XaWo7aoDrJo

Apparently Carey Mulligan doesn't have much to say, and she's not much of a guest. Yet despite that I found myself laughing out loud (literally - actually laughing) at some of the moments in this interview. And the whole time he admits "I'm just trying to connect with the youngin"

Love it.
Title: Re: NBCs Late Night Lineup Flap
Post by: c-lando on January 13, 2010, 12:39:48 PM
Please tell me you've watched his 1000th episode!!! That show will stay on my TIVO indefinitely.
Title: Re: NBCs Late Night Lineup Flap
Post by: cuddlyevil on January 13, 2010, 01:58:26 PM
Please tell me you've watched his 1000th episode!!! That show will stay on my TIVO indefinitely.

I am heartbroken that I missed it.  :'(
Title: Re: NBCs Late Night Lineup Flap
Post by: c-lando on January 13, 2010, 02:19:33 PM
Please tell me you've watched his 1000th episode!!! That show will stay on my TIVO indefinitely.

I am heartbroken that I missed it.  :'(
Hopefully it is on the website for the Late Late Show or something. It was amazing...unless you hate puppets.
Title: Re: NBCs Late Night Lineup Flap
Post by: va-vacious on January 13, 2010, 09:16:59 PM
I admit that I haven't watched late night shows in more years than I care to admit, but if I'm up, I watch Conan (though I do really like Letterman). Fallon doesn't do it for me, but I think I might like some of his skits. I really like Craig Ferguson, for many of the reasons listed below.

I do not like Jay Leno. I've been off of him since at least 2000. He was making Monica Lewinsky jokes years after Clinton was out of office. And that is just lazy. He's just not funny. I think the other hosts have enough of a self-depreciating streak to reduce apparent rudeness.

The 10:00 thing was a foolish choice. And they canceled Southland, which was awesome and would do very well in a 10pm slot.
Title: Re: NBCs Late Night Lineup Flap
Post by: Dan on January 14, 2010, 09:30:16 AM
Please tell me you've watched his 1000th episode!!! That show will stay on my TIVO indefinitely.

I am heartbroken that I missed it.  :'(


Hahah. Yes, I did see it on Youtube. It's probably still up, cuddly. I'm gonna be honest and say that Craig and I don't have much history, so I didn't know about his love of puppets until that show. I think I started watching him in early Dec... But yes, it was definitely hilarious that he even pulled that whole thing off.
Title: Re: NBCs Late Night Lineup Flap
Post by: Hell Toupee on January 14, 2010, 11:18:05 AM
kJWlk_n5Vek

<3 it.
Title: Re: NBCs Late Night Lineup Flap
Post by: c-lando on January 14, 2010, 11:40:40 AM

Hahah. Yes, I did see it on Youtube. It's probably still up, cuddly. I'm gonna be honest and say that Craig and I don't have much history, so I didn't know about his love of puppets until that show. I think I started watching him in early Dec... But yes, it was definitely hilarious that he even pulled that whole thing off.
OH MAN! So you probably don't know that Kristen Bell is his favorite guest and he has her on WHENEVER possible. Like, they are full-on IN LOVE with talking to each other. It's amaaaaaaazing!
Title: Re: NBCs Late Night Lineup Flap
Post by: Dan on January 14, 2010, 06:13:52 PM

Hahah. Yes, I did see it on Youtube. It's probably still up, cuddly. I'm gonna be honest and say that Craig and I don't have much history, so I didn't know about his love of puppets until that show. I think I started watching him in early Dec... But yes, it was definitely hilarious that he even pulled that whole thing off.
OH MAN! So you probably don't know that Kristen Bell is his favorite guest and he has her on WHENEVER possible. Like, they are full-on IN LOVE with talking to each other. It's amaaaaaaazing!

Well I didn't know they are in love or anything, but that was at least the 2nd (maybe 3rd?) time I'd seen her so I figured there was a connection. And now that I've seen Jason Segal on a few times... and Mila Kunis once, I figured there's some kind of "Forgetting Sarah Marshall" connection. I don't know what it is.

But regardless they are all guests I like seeing, so everyone wins! Yay!
Title: Re: NBCs Late Night Lineup Flap
Post by: matt on January 15, 2010, 12:54:22 AM
http://www.latenightwithjimmyfallon.com/blogs/2010/01/neil-young-sings-pants-on-the-ground/
Title: Re: NBCs Late Night Lineup Flap
Post by: trixi on January 15, 2010, 01:57:10 PM
axwO6BkCtIo

Boy, Kimmel really let Jay have it last night on Jay's own show.
Title: Re: NBCs Late Night Lineup Flap
Post by: foolsgold on January 15, 2010, 02:08:15 PM
Seeing that makes the conspiracy theorist in me think this is just a huge network stunt.  Why on earth would Leno have Kimmel on his show a day or so after Kimmel did his Leno lampoon?  A lot can be said about Leno, but he's not stupid and had to know that something like this could and probably would happen. 

Title: Re: NBCs Late Night Lineup Flap
Post by: Kwyjibo on January 16, 2010, 10:58:09 AM
I would say NBC is certainly pushing the animosity because the ratings are way up.  I'd wager that somebody is still getting screwed though.
Title: Re: NBCs Late Night Lineup Flap
Post by: Cockney Rebel on January 16, 2010, 12:19:02 PM
Rumours have it NBC are giving Conan $40m and will not envoke a no-compete clause

He'll go to Fox.

I hate Fox but I hope his show pisses all over Leno's
Title: Re: NBCs Late Night Lineup Flap
Post by: Buzzstein on January 16, 2010, 05:18:37 PM
Well, good, at least Conan will be allowed to move his show somewhere else. He would do well on Fox or really anywhere he goes. The idiots at NBC are such short-sighted bastards. As Jay's audience dies off ratings will go down. Would have been a lot smarter from a long term business stand point to stick with Conan.
Title: Re: NBCs Late Night Lineup Flap
Post by: Nate on January 16, 2010, 06:55:20 PM
Network TV is dying.  Why would he go to FOX and sink LOWER in the late-night ratings than he is now?  The main problem is the FOX affiliates get decent ratings with the sitcom re-runs, and ultimately, it's their choice, not FOX, as to what's run after the local news.

I said this before, but going to Comedy Central and following Colbert & Stewart four nights a week is probably the best move.
Title: Re: NBCs Late Night Lineup Flap
Post by: rva on January 16, 2010, 07:35:50 PM
That was a pretty awesome Neil Young impression.  Fallon does undeniably have his moments.

Kimmel's thing sucked, though.  Which just kind of re-affirms my belief that he's more-or-less talentless and has to rely totally on writers.  I mean, his responses weren't very funny.   He just tried to turn everything into a mean Leno jab in horribly ham-handed ways.  "Kimmel, do you have any pets?"  "You mean, do I have any pets you want to bump off a time slot?"  "Kimmel, do you like chocolate ice cream?"  "Are you trying to buy me off with ice cream after you dicked me?"  The worst part was you could see him like, wracking his brain for those responses.

I agree that Comedy Central is Conan's best move.  Like I said, he's more interested in the comedy than the talk, and Comedy Central will give him more freedom, as well as a like-minded audience.
Title: Re: NBCs Late Night Lineup Flap
Post by: Buzzstein on January 16, 2010, 07:41:26 PM
Yeah, Jimmy was awkward as hell in that clip.

That would be pretty awesome if Comedy Central picked up Conan though.
Title: Re: NBCs Late Night Lineup Flap
Post by: Kwyjibo on January 16, 2010, 08:35:32 PM
Is there really any chance of it though?  I mean, all he can really do is exactly what Stewart and Colbert already do... they don't want to dilute that brand too much.
Title: Re: NBCs Late Night Lineup Flap
Post by: Nate on January 16, 2010, 10:51:29 PM
Is there really any chance of it though?  I mean, all he can really do is exactly what Stewart and Colbert already do... they don't want to dilute that brand too much.

I don't see Conan making political jokes and satire like Colbert and Stewart.  Is Colbert and Letterman doing the same show?  Why can't Conan bring the same late-night program he does to cable?
Title: Re: NBCs Late Night Lineup Flap
Post by: Nate on January 17, 2010, 12:51:08 AM
If you're on Facebook, I started a group called 'I Will Never Watch Another Second Of The Tonight Show if Jay Leno Returns As Host' if anyone is interested in joining.

http://apps.facebook.com/groupsplus/group.php?id=9171&tr_prev=invite&tr_vers=1.0&tr_acc=invite_page&tr_sig=148653830
Title: Re: NBCs Late Night Lineup Flap
Post by: Juliana on January 17, 2010, 09:19:14 AM
Network TV is dying.  Why would he go to FOX and sink LOWER in the late-night ratings than he is now?  The main problem is the FOX affiliates get decent ratings with the sitcom re-runs, and ultimately, it's their choice, not FOX, as to what's run after the local news.

I said this before, but going to Comedy Central and following Colbert & Stewart four nights a week is probably the best move.

Do you think he'd get better ratings on CC than Fox though?  CC sure couldn't pay him the $$ fox could
Title: Re: NBCs Late Night Lineup Flap
Post by: Juliana on January 17, 2010, 10:40:34 AM
Seth Meyers on SNL last night

"You didn't have to have Cinemax to see somebody get screwed on TV this week"
*picture of CoCo in the background*
Title: Re: NBCs Late Night Lineup Flap
Post by: rva on January 17, 2010, 11:38:31 AM
I still don't see how Leno is to blame here.    He's getting a half-hour show, which will be an absolute disaster.  No one would watch that.  Conan is just getting moved back a half hour.  He has the younger crowd who will stay up to watch him.  He might lose some audience toward the end of the show, but no one watches the end of Conan anyway.  If Conan were to just stick around, Leno's show would fail and then more than likely he would get his slot back.

I just think Conan's being bitchy about it.  His show was on at 12:30 for years, and he seemed to be okay with it.  Then he got the coveted tonight show spot, and he refused to change anything he did.  You come on earlier, you have to entertain a broader and older audience.  O'Brien didn't want to do that and his ratings were not exactly stellar.  I guess I can understand his frustration over NBC wanting him to change and him not wanting to.  But that's got nothing to do with Leno.

Title: Re: NBCs Late Night Lineup Flap
Post by: bluebastard on January 17, 2010, 07:20:53 PM
I still don't see how Leno is to blame here.    He's getting a half-hour show, which will be an absolute disaster.  No one would watch that.  Conan is just getting moved back a half hour.  He has the younger crowd who will stay up to watch him.  He might lose some audience toward the end of the show, but no one watches the end of Conan anyway.  If Conan were to just stick around, Leno's show would fail and then more than likely he would get his slot back.

I just think Conan's being bitchy about it.  His show was on at 12:30 for years, and he seemed to be okay with it.  Then he got the coveted tonight show spot, and he refused to change anything he did.  You come on earlier, you have to entertain a broader and older audience.  O'Brien didn't want to do that and his ratings were not exactly stellar.  I guess I can understand his frustration over NBC wanting him to change and him not wanting to.  But that's got nothing to do with Leno.



Leno is not the real evil persay but he is in a position to step back, be a man, and ride off into the NBC sunset with plenty of money a warehouse of cars with opportunities to make money elsewhere with specials, appearances, etc. Conan's gripe is he's only been given 7 months to earn an audience on The Tonight Show. Do you know how long it took Jay to beat Letterman? 3 years. Leno had three years before he began keeping a consistent audience. That 7 months also expresses the fact that Conan and his entire crew uprooted lives in New York to come to Los Angeles and I don't think any of them wanted to beyond the prospect of working with Conan on the Tonight Show.

Frankly, The Tonight Show brand has been dead to Generation X and younger for a long time now. Carson's show was always geared to the older set and now that that set isn't really a coveted late night audience (though apparently NBC thinks it is but they are out of touch all over the place), it brings nothing to the table. Leno back on The Tonight Show isn't going to do anything to rebuild that audience and at this point, NBC would be wise to flush just about everything down the toilet and begin fresh. I think of the shows NBC has canceled the past three years that could now be decent ratings and advertising stalwarts for them that they gave up on for a myriad of pointless reasons.

I think the funniest moment this week was Dick Ebersol calling Conan a loser and a failure--words from a man who lost NBC the NFL, MLB, NHL, and the NBA, tried to turn the Olympics into PPV viewing in the early 90s that miserably failed, the rise and fall of the XFL, the destruction of Saturday Night Live in the 80s, and I could go on. And yet he still continues to have a job--that proves the stupidity of the ruling class.
Title: Re: NBCs Late Night Lineup Flap
Post by: Nate on January 17, 2010, 11:48:15 PM
I still don't see how Leno is to blame here.    He's getting a half-hour show, which will be an absolute disaster.  No one would watch that.  Conan is just getting moved back a half hour.  He has the younger crowd who will stay up to watch him.  He might lose some audience toward the end of the show, but no one watches the end of Conan anyway.  If Conan were to just stick around, Leno's show would fail and then more than likely he would get his slot back.

I just think Conan's being bitchy about it.  His show was on at 12:30 for years, and he seemed to be okay with it.  Then he got the coveted tonight show spot, and he refused to change anything he did.  You come on earlier, you have to entertain a broader and older audience.  O'Brien didn't want to do that and his ratings were not exactly stellar.  I guess I can understand his frustration over NBC wanting him to change and him not wanting to.  But that's got nothing to do with Leno.


Also, if you move back his show to 12:05, it ceases to be the Tonight Show.  It's more like the 'Tomorrow Show.'  I really believe Conan believes in the institution that is The Tonight Show, what it means to the history of TV (even though one could debate what it means today), and why it's important the time slot not be moved. 

If the amount of the buyout I'm hearing NBC is going to give him is true, he doesn't need to worry about the money that Comedy Central can give him.

However, I am reconsidering my thoughts about him jumping to FOX a little.  If Conan can come on every night at 11/10 CST, that's a game changer.  The extra half-hour might be enough to give him a fighting chance.  The problem before with Leno coming on before Conan was that Conan was still stuck with the second-tier guests.  If you're promoting a movie that comes out on Friday, would you rather come on at 10 EST or 11:30 EST?  What potentially will have the bigger audience?  It'd be the same thing if Conan can start at 11 vs 11:30.  That could work for him in the ratings war.
Title: Re: NBCs Late Night Lineup Flap
Post by: rva on January 18, 2010, 02:12:44 AM
I don't think O'Brien can blame Leno for his somewhat weak ratings.  He was getting beaten in his time slot by Ferguson before he moved.

And that's the real problem.  Letterman/Ferguson is just a far superior combination than Leno/O'Brien.  So pretty much NBC is just desperately shuffling deck chairs here.











Title: Re: NBCs Late Night Lineup Flap
Post by: Nate on January 18, 2010, 04:14:20 AM
I don't think O'Brien can blame Leno for his somewhat weak ratings.  He was getting beaten in his time slot by Ferguson before he moved.

True for the second part.  I think the first part has at least half to do with the equation.  They're both in the same city, so they're competing for guests, and I think whomever's got something to sell is going to pick Leno for the higher audience.  There are more people watching TV at 10/9 vs 11:30/10:30.  Pure and simple.

Now, with Ebersol, I absolutely believe him when he said that he asked Conan to change things up, and Conan said no.  They both had valid points to argue from.  Ebersol because the ratings had slipped faster than NBC would have liked, and Conan because he had only been on the job for seven months, and felt like he should have gotten more support, like Jay received.  Not to mention, soon after Conan went on the air, Letterman broke his sex scandal, and ratings turned from there.  Conan was beating him up until that point.  But yeah, my guess is you'll see NBC become a cable channel within the next five years.  They can get more money in advertising, their ratings will be about the same, not to mention having a cable company as your owner can expedite that process (if not raise questions about anti-trust issues).  It'll suck for people who don't have cable, but hey, what are they missing out on now they can't get online?
Title: Re: NBCs Late Night Lineup Flap
Post by: Kwyjibo on January 18, 2010, 07:37:48 AM
Jay certainly got more support from NBC than Conan did.  Our local affiliate fits in a bit from the previous night's show every morning (acting like it's news) and I'm sure every other NBC station does the same.  He's gotten way more prime time ad space than Conan.

Conan had to tone down to take this slot, he's said so many times.  You really can't expect someone to retool a show they've been doing for 17 years in just over half a year, and then retool again.  If they weren't willing to go this far with him why did they ever give him the gig to begin with?
Title: Re: NBCs Late Night Lineup Flap
Post by: Kwyjibo on January 19, 2010, 11:17:06 AM
I thought these two blog entries were especially enlightening.

News from Me 1/17/2010 (http://www.newsfromme.com/archives/2010_01_17.html#018381)

News from Me 1/19/2010 (http://www.newsfromme.com/archives/2010_01_19.html#018393)
Title: Re: NBCs Late Night Lineup Flap
Post by: Juliana on January 19, 2010, 01:36:56 PM
It's funny, that one from the 17th, where he talks about what he thinks Jay will say about everything down the line, is almost exactly what Jay did say last night.
Title: Re: NBCs Late Night Lineup Flap
Post by: Buzzstein on January 19, 2010, 03:53:33 PM
That seems pretty accurate to me. I don't really see Jay Leno as the bad guy in this. I was just thinking last night that they shouldn't have given Conan the Tonight Show when they did. NBC should've waited longer...say maybe 10 years rather than just 5. But maybe Conan wouldn't have gone for that. I don't know.
Title: Re: NBCs Late Night Lineup Flap
Post by: rva on January 19, 2010, 08:09:25 PM
lJ9m1an-pQ8&feature=player_embedded

This is somehow even funnier if you understand the narration.  I can't really translate the whole thing, here is something that may enrich your viewing experience.  At some point the announcer is going to say "Letterman and Jimmy Kimmel."  Wait for it....

Title: Re: NBCs Late Night Lineup Flap
Post by: va-vacious on January 19, 2010, 08:58:41 PM
that really should have been the video of the day! And it's really disturbing. Why would an audience on the other side of the world care about the late night shenanigans in the US? The animated figures were awesome, though.  Might be better than the real Leno.  ;)
Title: Re: NBCs Late Night Lineup Flap
Post by: Juliana on January 19, 2010, 10:00:39 PM
Check out the pics from the "I'm with CoCo" rallies on the facebook page.  Really fun stuff.
I'm with CoCo (http://www.sirmikeofmitchell.com/imwithcoco/)
Title: Re: NBCs Late Night Lineup Flap
Post by: Dan on January 19, 2010, 10:58:35 PM
You know, if Conan is getting $40 million dollars or whatever it is they are going to settle on, then I'm sure the dude doesn't need all these rallies and support. Yes, it sounds like he got screwed over by the network, but he's plenty well off. It's fun to talk about but I don't think he's exactly going to be found in the gutter after this all said and done.
Title: Re: NBCs Late Night Lineup Flap
Post by: Nate on January 20, 2010, 01:41:21 AM
His last show is Friday, so be tuned in.
Title: Re: NBCs Late Night Lineup Flap
Post by: cuddlyevil on January 20, 2010, 09:26:15 AM
Did anyone see Jeff Zucker on Charlie Rose? I was half tempted to grab a bottle of booze and take a shot every time he said "Um". I will give him credit he said several times "We have to do a better job", granted he was gritting his teeth while he said it but he admitted it. He still seemed like he was just trying to appease the pissed off masses.

Title: Re: NBCs Late Night Lineup Flap
Post by: Kwyjibo on January 20, 2010, 09:46:03 AM
You know, if Conan is getting $40 million dollars or whatever it is they are going to settle on, then I'm sure the dude doesn't need all these rallies and support. Yes, it sounds like he got screwed over by the network, but he's plenty well off. It's fun to talk about but I don't think he's exactly going to be found in the gutter after this all said and done.

I don't think anybody was worried that he might end up homeless or destitute.  They're rallying because they like his show and want to see it continue, or him be able to carry on elsewhere in a hospitable environment.  Sometimes the networks DO listen to the viewers (Jericho, anyone?) not usually, but sometimes.

Whatever happens, Conan will land on his feet but I'm not sure why that makes it silly to show support for him.
Title: Re: NBCs Late Night Lineup Flap
Post by: rva on January 20, 2010, 11:03:40 AM
I wouldn't mind if the supporters were just "Keep Conan's show.  We like it!"  But they're actually rallying around the dude as if he were done some major injustice by the evil Jay Leno.  And the timing is a bit sensitive here after a genuine tragedy in Haiti.

I think O'Brien is being a bit of a drama queen.
Title: Re: NBCs Late Night Lineup Flap
Post by: Kwyjibo on January 20, 2010, 05:02:03 PM
He has on several occasions reminded his audience that there are ACTUAL problems in the world and that they should go to stillerstrong.org and do something for Haiti.  I don't think he's asked for any of the rally stuff, but I respect him for making an appearance at the one in LA.  I mean, if you did something like that for a guy and it was on his back door step and he didn't even wave out the window what would you think?

Outside of calling NBC's execs morons I think he's stayed pretty clean of the whole thing.
Title: Re: NBCs Late Night Lineup Flap
Post by: c-lando on January 20, 2010, 06:25:08 PM
that really should have been the video of the day! And it's really disturbing. Why would an audience on the other side of the world care about the late night shenanigans in the US? The animated figures were awesome, though.  Might be better than the real Leno.  ;)
x2!!! Amazing.
Title: Re: NBCs Late Night Lineup Flap
Post by: Poncho on January 21, 2010, 02:56:33 PM
I don't watch any of their shows.  I watch clips of the Late, Late Show because that's funny sometimes.

I will say that Leno hasn't actually been funny in 20 years or so.  What a crapfest.  At least Conan is chuckle-worthy on the rare occasion I see him.
Title: Re: NBCs Late Night Lineup Flap
Post by: Hell Toupee on January 21, 2010, 08:32:37 PM
His last show is Friday, so be tuned in.

Letterman's already ask him if he'd come on his show in the near future. Not sure when though.
Title: Re: NBCs Late Night Lineup Flap
Post by: Doug on January 22, 2010, 12:43:36 PM
This article pretty much sums up my thoughts on the whole thing:

http://www.avclub.com/articles/latenight-roundup,37388/?utm_medium=RSS&utm_campaign=feeds&utm_source=avclub_rss_daily