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Randomville! => Main Street => Topic started by: Dan on March 23, 2010, 10:16:11 AM

Title: WOXY goes down, again
Post by: Dan on March 23, 2010, 10:16:11 AM
From their website:

Quote
WOXY Listeners, Fans and Friends...

Due to current economic realities and the lack of ongoing funding for WOXY's operations, we've been forced to suspend our live broadcasts as of March 23rd. We're continuing to explore options to keep The Future of Rock and Roll alive. For business inquiries, please contact Bryan Jay (bryan@woxy.com) or John at Future Sounds (john@futuresounds.com).

Thanks for your years of dedicated support.

- Mike, Shiv, Joe, Paige, Brian and Bryan Jay

I know most of you don't listen, but surely you at least care....
BOOOOOOO.


I feel worst for the staff, who moved to Texas for the station, only to be out of a job 7 months later? That really burns.
Title: Re: WOXY goes down, again
Post by: Doug on March 23, 2010, 10:22:35 AM
Yep, that really sucks.  I'm sad every time I hear they are having troubles and happy any time they do well.  WOXY will always hold a dear place in my heart, like some cool big brother or Uncle that got you high and then introduced you to Led Zeppelin for the first time.
Title: Re: WOXY goes down, again
Post by: MissKitty on March 23, 2010, 10:24:36 AM
Yeah, it bites.
Title: Re: WOXY goes down, again
Post by: c-lando on March 23, 2010, 10:51:16 AM
Yep, that really sucks.  I'm sad every time I hear they are having troubles and happy any time they do well.  WOXY will always hold a dear place in my heart, like some cool big brother or Uncle that got you high and then introduced you to Led Zeppelin for the first time.
x2.

I feel awful for the staff. Again, to move there and be dumped. Sheesh. It totally blows.
Title: Re: WOXY goes down, again
Post by: Kwyjibo on March 23, 2010, 10:54:37 AM
I feel for the staff, that's a quite a yo-yo they've been on for the last few years.
Title: Re: WOXY goes down, again
Post by: MissKitty on March 23, 2010, 11:04:36 AM
We are constantly reminded at my place of employment that payroll is the biggest drain on the company's funds. Sounds like Future Sounds has decided the same.

Sure, they can run the Woxytron and they can continue to import in shows (but Jeeebus, get rid of the Waiting Room - what a load of shit that program is) but they won't be any different than any other internet radio station. The live DJs made the station stand out.

Plus they are our friends, and I hate seeing them being shit on like this. So awful.
Title: Re: WOXY goes down, again
Post by: Poncho on March 23, 2010, 11:11:06 AM
It sucks and I feel bad for the staff... moving to be dumped bites.

Ultimately, I said my goodbyes a long, long time ago.  I have nothing left to give to the demise of something that has just been ripped away from me, dangled in front of me and ripped away again and again.

Bake said it best back in 2004... "to be a part of something so special, that no matter where we go or what we do after tonight, we'll never forget it and never be a part of anything that could possibly equal what we've experienced through 97X."  That's how I feel about my musical life.  There is nothing that can compare to my musical upbringing with my 97X musical family.

Goodbye to the future of rock n' roll.  Yet again?
Title: Re: WOXY goes down, again
Post by: The Engineer on March 23, 2010, 11:15:19 AM
We are constantly reminded at my place of employment that payroll is the biggest drain on the company's funds.

How does that work for morale?
Title: Re: WOXY goes down, again
Post by: Fourthisto on March 23, 2010, 11:18:04 AM
The live DJs made the station stand out.

Plus they are our friends, and I hate seeing them being shit on like this. So awful.
So true, MK, so true.  :-\

I wish those guys were still local, for no other reason than I'd like to buy them all a round tonight and tell them "thanks" face to face.
Title: Re: WOXY goes down, again
Post by: MissKitty on March 23, 2010, 11:18:51 AM
We are constantly reminded at my place of employment that payroll is the biggest drain on the company's funds.

How does that work for morale?

Oh, we know they'd get rid of all of us if they could figure out a way to put out product without us providing the content. We've already had one bloodbath in the last year (lost over 100 employees)...ain't nobody safe anymore.
Title: Re: WOXY goes down, again
Post by: Butter on March 23, 2010, 11:21:25 AM
I feel for the staff pretty badly.  Uprooting themselves like that and then being sacked.... good luck to them all, nobody deserves that.
Title: Re: WOXY goes down, again
Post by: rva on March 23, 2010, 11:21:34 AM
Yeah, the DJ's were the main reason I stuck with WOXY even in the age of Pandora, Slacker, etc.

I hated the way that the pre-stocked stations on those places just played a horrible non-thought out generic list of indie spew.  And then if you started thumbs-upping stuff you rapidly ended up with the "All the same" channel.

I don't think they were helped out much by the fact that the indie scene has kinda sucked serious ass for the last two years.  It's all sort of quirky singles and same ol' folksy stuff.  It's the kind of thing where you pick the best stuff and put it on a playlist but you wouldn't want to hear a 4 hour stream of the same stuff, especially the deeper cuts.  Plus, the turnover of acts is so outrageous now.  You'd hear a song like 2 times on WOXY and that would be it.

I don't think I know anyone besides me who listens to anything other than their mp3 players and Pandora anymore.  I don't know if that is good or bad, but it's not really my thing.  

I suppose I'm the same way, though.  I really no longer have the time or inclination to keep up with the whole indie scene so I just listen to certain niches and things I like.  I really, really wish WOXY would have done a weekly capsule show because it would have helped me out, and I think it would have made them seem less scattered and possibly helped establish them as "tastemakers," which is really the only way to stay alive nowadays.  You know, like what does Pitchfork do that 10,000 other blogs don't?  Nothing.  But they're Pitchfork.

But it just wasn't something they wanted to do, and I don't blame them.  I really wouldn't want to work at/under a pimp yourself and play the hits scheme either.  I just hope everyone lands on their feet.
Title: Re: WOXY goes down, again
Post by: rva on March 23, 2010, 11:30:10 AM
It does suck bad for the staff, but I dunno.  I still think they are better off.  Let's face it, they wouldn't have lasted in Cincinnati either.

If you're looking for a job in the indie music scene, where better than Austin?  To say nothing of the culture in the place even if you get a non-biz job.  I also think that despite the shutting down, they did manage to raise the profile of WOXY (and thus, themselves) quite a bit the last few months with all their live segments and sponsoring of things.
Title: Re: WOXY goes down, again
Post by: dirk on March 23, 2010, 12:35:06 PM
It sucks, but at some point, it comes down to the fact there is no revue model for them.  They have bounced through 3(?) different companies, but still no way to make money.  Even if another company comes in and buys them up again, there is still no way to make money with it.  There has never been a fund drive, or commercials (at least for a LONG time), or sponorships or anything.  If they want to come back (and I hope they do), they need to come up with a way for the station to make money.   Without that, the same thing will just keep happening.
Title: Re: WOXY goes down, again
Post by: MissKitty on March 23, 2010, 01:04:00 PM
Not to make light or anything, but shouldn't this thread title be in the "Taken Out of Context" thread?
Title: Re: WOXY goes down, again
Post by: Kwyjibo on March 23, 2010, 01:08:39 PM
I think you're exactly right Dirk.  I don't know how they can survive.  I'm still confused by all of the money they spent in their first incarnation after they lost the terrestrial signal.  From where I'm sitting they spent an awful lot of money (two streams, offices in Longworth Hall, etc etc) for not having any method of perpetuating their cash flow.  I want them to do well, even if I don't really care for/have much interest in their product anymore, but I just don't see how they could.
Title: Re: WOXY goes down, again
Post by: Dan on March 23, 2010, 01:38:21 PM
Not to make light or anything, but shouldn't this thread title be in the "Taken Out of Context" thread?

Awesome.
Title: Re: WOXY goes down, again
Post by: Juliana on March 23, 2010, 01:40:12 PM
That sucks.
I don't listen anymore, but I've never wished the guys anything but good luck
Title: Re: WOXY goes down, again
Post by: c-lando on March 23, 2010, 02:27:03 PM
Not to make light or anything, but shouldn't this thread title be in the "Taken Out of Context" thread?
GSPoTD, you naughty vixen. MROWR!
Title: Re: WOXY goes down, again
Post by: rva on March 23, 2010, 02:56:09 PM
I think you're exactly right Dirk.  I don't know how they can survive.  I'm still confused by all of the money they spent in their first incarnation after they lost the terrestrial signal.  From where I'm sitting they spent an awful lot of money (two streams, offices in Longworth Hall, etc etc) for not having any method of perpetuating their cash flow.  I want them to do well, even if I don't really care for/have much interest in their product anymore, but I just don't see how they could.

Dude, it's over for them.

There was a time when perhaps you could have said that internet radio was the wave of the future, that WOXY had the listeners, and it was therefore just a matter of converting the listenership to $$.  Just a matter of adding that last piece to an upcoming business model.

Now the idea of streaming internet radio with live DJ's seems rather quaint.  I just can't imagine someone spending 3-4 hours a day listening to someone else play songs without having any input into the matter.  Everyone I can think of who might possibly have interest in WOXY listens to Pandora or Slacker instead... if they listen to streaming at all. 

Internet radio works great for old dudes.  I mean, we grew up listening to the radio, this is how we are used to experiencing music.  The only thing is now it comes out of a PC speaker instead of a boom box but that's not really such a big deal.  Which in retrospect seems kind of dumb.  How could you think that the internet and all this new-fangled shit would come down the pipe but people would still experience music the same way?

I wish I knew exactly what the "new way" is, though.  Like, I don't know how people pick up on new acts.  I guess it just spreads virally through facebook or something.  Which would explain why so much of the new shit sucks so bad.  I don't know. 
Title: Re: WOXY goes down, again
Post by: Poncho on March 23, 2010, 04:52:23 PM
I listen to my iPod in the car.
I listen to Accuradio on my phone.
I listen to Accuradio on my computer.


http://accuradio.com/rock/

Alternative 80s  - No Men at Work here, this is modern rock from the 80s, like R.E.M., the Cure, and the Clash
Adult Alternative  - A rock channel for adults with "broadened" tastes. Classic Rock, Blues, Americana, Modern Rock and more.
Alternate Takes  - Live songs, covers, and tunes you know, but not like this!
Americana - American roots music
Downbeat  - Downtempo and chill music

Those are the stations that get the most love from me.  Alt 80's being the most loved.



I assume it's a lot like Pandora?  I don't know if you have subscribe to Pandora or not, but accuradio has just been what I've used.
Title: Re: WOXY goes down, again
Post by: Nate on March 23, 2010, 06:56:11 PM
Dude, it's over for them.

There was a time when perhaps you could have said that internet radio was the wave of the future, that WOXY had the listeners, and it was therefore just a matter of converting the listenership to $$.  Just a matter of adding that last piece to an upcoming business model.

Now the idea of streaming internet radio with live DJ's seems rather quaint.  I just can't imagine someone spending 3-4 hours a day listening to someone else play songs without having any input into the matter.  Everyone I can think of who might possibly have interest in WOXY listens to Pandora or Slacker instead... if they listen to streaming at all. 

Internet radio works great for old dudes.  I mean, we grew up listening to the radio, this is how we are used to experiencing music.  The only thing is now it comes out of a PC speaker instead of a boom box but that's not really such a big deal.  Which in retrospect seems kind of dumb.  How could you think that the internet and all this new-fangled shit would come down the pipe but people would still experience music the same way?

I wish I knew exactly what the "new way" is, though.  Like, I don't know how people pick up on new acts.  I guess it just spreads virally through facebook or something.  Which would explain why so much of the new shit sucks so bad.  I don't know. 

The problem runs deeper than radio; it's almost a societal thing.  ipods, commercials, short attention spans.  It's all come together to create this beast.  And then there's cloud computing, which will be the nail in the coffin for all radio.  If you have access to anything through itunes or whatever, why listen to radio?  A friend recommends a band, or P-Fork, or Idolator, you can just cue it up though your iphone.  The consumer has never been in more control than right now and it will only get easier.

I just think the guys got shafted, getting less than seven months to put the plan together?  Shit, the post SXSW boon had yet to be seen.  And they had their best one yet, according to Shivvy!  I know funding's funding and it runs out, but...SXSW can be a huge momentum changer.  It's not supposed to be a farewell bash.  Fuck, I'm pissed for them.  You relocate halfway across the goddamn country, and seven months later, that's it?

There's not enough poop to mail out to the guilty parties for this debacle. 
Title: Re: WOXY goes down, again
Post by: va-vacious on March 23, 2010, 07:30:16 PM
such bad news. It's true, I haven't listened for a long time, and wasn't really familiar with lots of the new stuff. But to uproot your life and then in less than a year have your job pulled out is just wrong.

I wish all the best to the staff, and hope to hear their voices somewhere, sometime on the radio.
Title: Re: WOXY goes down, again
Post by: frizgolf on March 23, 2010, 08:50:16 PM

http://accuradio.com/rock/

Alternative 80s  - No Men at Work here, this is modern rock from the 80s, like R.E.M., the Cure, and the Clash
Adult Alternative  - A rock channel for adults with "broadened" tastes. Classic Rock, Blues, Americana, Modern Rock and more.
Alternate Takes  - Live songs, covers, and tunes you know, but not like this!
Americana - American roots music
Downbeat  - Downtempo and chill music

Those are the stations that get the most love from me.  Alt 80's being the most loved.
They have a really good deep classic rock channel I like.
Title: Re: WOXY goes down, again
Post by: Ella Minnow Pea on March 23, 2010, 09:59:32 PM
I finally get to listen again at work, thanks to my Droid, and now it goes away again. At least I got a couple of weeks.

I feel so bad for the guys having been in Austin just half a year. They had quite a week last week with many SXSW acts, I hate that was the end. I hope something works out for each of them - sooner rather than later.
Title: Re: WOXY goes down, again
Post by: scurvygirl on March 23, 2010, 10:48:55 PM
Not to make light or anything, but shouldn't this thread title be in the "Taken Out of Context" thread?

Hell yes, my thoughts exactly.

Sad for this to be happening all over again.
Title: Re: WOXY goes down, again
Post by: Ella Minnow Pea on March 23, 2010, 11:17:52 PM
Interesting article with a few more details at CMJ:
http://prod1.cmj.com/articles/display_article.php?id=169548183
Title: Re: WOXY goes down, again
Post by: Nate on March 24, 2010, 05:22:06 AM
Bill N has reappeared on the woxy boards...take that for what you will.

http://www.woxy.com/boards/showthread.php?t=60659
Title: Re: WOXY goes down, again
Post by: benway on March 24, 2010, 09:30:49 AM
It sucks, but at some point, it comes down to the fact there is no revue model for them.  They have bounced through 3(?) different companies, but still no way to make money.  Even if another company comes in and buys them up again, there is still no way to make money with it.  There has never been a fund drive, or commercials (at least for a LONG time), or sponorships or anything.  If they want to come back (and I hope they do), they need to come up with a way for the station to make money.   Without that, the same thing will just keep happening.

The problem is they don't change their business model each time the previous incarnation fails.  Someone mentioned $500,000 a year to keep woxy going.  That's insane.  Talk about living beyond your means.  You could see back in 2004, it wouldn't fly, but they (investors, I assume) never learned business 101.
Title: Re: WOXY goes down, again
Post by: rva on March 24, 2010, 10:48:51 AM
I wouldn't say that. 

It's less that they don't understand business than that they were unwilling to do certain things.  They could have scaled things down and just run WOXY-tron and some ads but that would have been boring, the DJ's wouldn't have jobs, and they wouldn't distinguish themselves from dozens of other shoutcast stations.

They want to run a "real" radio station.  And that's not a bad idea.  The problem is you just can't have a profitable stand alone radio station.  I think for what WOXY wants to do, they need to scale UP, not down.  The station needs to be attached to a website that reviews albums, keeps you up-to-date on indie news, offers original content, etc.  Sort of the ESPN of indie music.

In fact, I would just straight out rip-off ESPN:

Top ten plays of the day=Top ten indie news items.
Sportscenter=Some sort of music countdown
Bill Simmons=Find some interesting dudes to write music columns
PTI=Have Mike and Shiv debate some music topics

So there should be dozens of "shows" and clips and columns all mashed together in one site just like ESPN.com.  The actual radio station would be like ESPN actually showing real sporting events.  ESPN's actual sporting event coverage is a tiny fraction of what they do.  But it's also kind of the backbone that holds it all together.

But to do that, you'd need to partner with Pitchfork or some other site that already has some of that covered.  Or you'd need to massively expand your operation.  Think like 50 employees, not 4.  Plus freelance-types and part-timers.

When Bill N. was in charge, he had the resources to pull it off.  The problem was that he was going the opposite way with things which totally worked against WOXY.  He was into sort of cloud computing and everyone making their own radio stations and interacting directly with each other.  If you and I are designing our own radio stations and sharing them with each other, then what do we need WOXY for?

But again, I don't know if anyone at WOXY has any interest in doing those things.
Title: Re: WOXY goes down, again
Post by: Doug on March 24, 2010, 08:12:05 PM
I just peeked in at the boards on woxy for the first time in about a year.  How depressing  :(
Title: Re: WOXY goes down, again
Post by: Butter on March 25, 2010, 07:51:50 AM
When Bill N. was in charge, he had the resources to pull it off.  The problem was that he was going the opposite way with things which totally worked against WOXY.  He was into sort of cloud computing and everyone making their own radio stations and interacting directly with each other.  If you and I are designing our own radio stations and sharing them with each other, then what do we need WOXY for?

That never made sense to me either. 
Title: Re: WOXY goes down, again
Post by: Doug on March 25, 2010, 08:17:10 AM
When Bill N. was in charge, he had the resources to pull it off.  The problem was that he was going the opposite way with things which totally worked against WOXY.  He was into sort of cloud computing and everyone making their own radio stations and interacting directly with each other.  If you and I are designing our own radio stations and sharing them with each other, then what do we need WOXY for?

That never made sense to me either. 

There's a thread over there (There's business and then there's WOXY) where he's implying that he'd like to help WOXY out again.  Sounds hopeful at the least.
Title: Re: WOXY goes down, again
Post by: rva on March 25, 2010, 08:20:52 AM
If you really think about it, WOXY accomplished a shit-ton more the last few months under Future Sounds than they ever did as part of Lala.  They moved to Austin.  They added a bunch of shows.  They sponsored a ton of live events.  They were all over SXSW.  They were bringing in a ton of lounge acts.  They seemed to have a really good PR/marketing person (at least within the Austin area) in Paige whatshername.

You can argue with whether any of the above things were actually good moves, but at least they were moves.  If they'd had deeper pockets, they might have turned a corner.  I still have no sense at all of what Bill N. was trying to do with WOXY.  

And now he apparently wants back in.

The thing is, if Bill N. really just likes the station, he could simply make a few small changes and leave the rest as is.  It's not going to turn WOXY into an actual money-maker, but it could maybe break even or lose only a small chunk of money each year and given his cash reserves he could go on supporting it indefinitely.

But I get the feeling Bill N. wants to turn WOXY into something.  Only thing is, I'm not sure what that something is, and I don't think he does either.


Title: Re: WOXY goes down, again
Post by: Dan on March 25, 2010, 11:51:34 AM
Yeah. I spent about 5 minutes with that thread (i.e. not very long) and got the sense that Bill was all about "if we can come up with something visionary and revolutionary then I'm here to finance it." He's not the idea guy. He's the business guy. If there's profit or innovation then they've got that connection to him and he's ready to help out. But if it's just "woe is me we need money" then he's obviously not going to help.

RVA, what you posted about the ESPN analogy...I hope you posted that to him.

But again, it's all about profitability (is that a word?). WOXY's not profitable in its current state and until there's something solid to suggest it could be then nothing's going to happen. And solid isn't "get commercials." It's an actual study with market data and hard numbers.
Title: Re: WOXY goes down, again
Post by: rva on March 25, 2010, 01:30:23 PM
Yeah, they could do with some focus groups and real hard data.  Do an actual market study and come up with a real mission statement and an actual business plan.

If you want to make it a real business, you got to run it like a business.
Title: Re: WOXY goes down, again
Post by: Juliana on March 25, 2010, 05:23:48 PM
I thought somebody said that Futuresounds bought the name and didn't plan to give that up?
Title: Re: WOXY goes down, again
Post by: Butter on March 26, 2010, 09:36:09 PM
Yeah, they could do with some focus groups and real hard data.  Do an actual market study and come up with a real mission statement and an actual business plan.

If you want to make it a real business, you got to run it like a business.

Music, as a business, sucks right now.  I can't imagine PLAYING music is much better.
Title: Re: WOXY goes down, again
Post by: Nate on March 27, 2010, 02:28:34 AM
I'm wondering if Bill N. is purchasing this for his own use.  I don't think he can affiliate woxy with lala now because of the Apple deal.  Also, I don't think Apple would have any interest in woxy, right?
Title: Re: WOXY goes down, again
Post by: rva on March 27, 2010, 10:02:30 AM
I think if Bill N. or anyone else were to buy WOXY it would be in large part a labor of love.  Which is not really a bad thing.

I think it's kinda like buying a sports franchise.  Owning a GOOD sports franchise in not really a money-making investment. So you don't want someone to buy it just for a profit motive or their main interest will be suckering fans into going to games while cutting every corner possible.  The team is going to suck and eventually the fans will lose interest and the only thing the owner cares about is if he can sell it before it tanks or forcing the league to bail him out.

On the other hand, you don't want an owner who gets too excited and overspends on players, or one who just thinks keeping the franchise in existence is enough.  Because no one wants to watch a consistently mediocre team, and no one is going to fall on their knees to thank you for putting a crap team on the field and embarrassing the fans and city.  Everyone just gets bored of it.

They need an investor, not a partron.  But an investor whose motivated more by the challenge of reaching some vision or the challenge of making WOXY the best it can be (according to their vision of "best"), as opposed to raw profit.

If WOXY were a English soccer team, they would be a League One side.  They need an owner that understands you can't turn WOXY into a Premiership team without destroying the character of the club or the finances or both.  But at the same time, they need an owner that wants WOXY to be the best League One side possible, because it takes WORK to do that and if you're not trying to be the best at some level, why bother? 
Title: Re: WOXY goes down, again
Post by: dirk on March 27, 2010, 10:39:45 AM
no one is going to fall on their knees to thank you for putting a crap team on the field and embarrassing the fans and city.  Everyone just gets bored of it.
The city of Cincinnati would beg to differ with that.
Title: Re: WOXY goes down, again
Post by: benway on April 01, 2010, 07:58:36 AM
But I get the feeling Bill N. wants to turn WOXY into something.  Only thing is, I'm not sure what that something is, and I don't think he does either.
This is exactly what I've been thinking.  The first thing he does (the second time now) is post on the boards and ask them for ideas?  That approach doesn't fill me with a lot of confidence.  The die-hards there just want the station to stay as it is with a new sugar daddy every year.

There is a lot of good ideas cropping up now though, and Bill N posted that something is in the works.  Time will tell.