Randomville

Politics => Political Discussions => Topic started by: lutz on January 16, 2012, 08:31:11 AM

Title: Not-So-United States
Post by: lutz on January 16, 2012, 08:31:11 AM
The BBC have an article on predictions for 2112 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16536598), and one suggests that "California will lead the break-up of the US".

Quote
Likelihood 8/10. There are some indications already that California wants to split off and such pressures tend to build over time. It is hard to see this waiting until the end of the century. Maybe an East Coast cluster will want to break off too. Pressures come from the enormous differences in wealth generation capability, and people not wanting to fund others if they can avoid it.

What do you think? If it does happen, will it be California or Texas who seccedes first? Do you think Americans would be better off if the USA was broken up into several smaller unions?
Title: Re: Not-So-United States
Post by: Kwyjibo on January 16, 2012, 09:03:34 AM
Quote
There are some indications already that California wants to split off

Call me uninformed, but what are these indications they speak of?
Title: Re: Not-So-United States
Post by: jcarwash31 on January 16, 2012, 02:24:08 PM
I think they may be confusing politics with seismology.  California may split off once the big one hits.  :o
Title: Re: Not-So-United States
Post by: Dan on January 16, 2012, 11:12:44 PM
As far as I can tell, I know of no one that has ever thought the USA splitting would be a good idea. In a Jim Bouton book that I read written in 1969 is the only time I've ever even heard someone mention it, and the point was that Texas "can" break away whenever it wants and yet when he says that it should to a Texan they are always taken aback.

California is indeed the most likely from an economic standpoint as they would be something like the 4th wealthiest country in the world if they were their own, but yet California is still always taking bailouts from the US govt and lately has been completely broke. So yeah, I don't know about that either.
Title: Re: Not-So-United States
Post by: lutz on January 17, 2012, 06:51:16 AM
Quote
There are some indications already that California wants to split off

Call me uninformed, but what are these indications they speak of?
I thought you folks might be able to shed some light on this for me, but apparently there is no light to shed. I suppose this will be a short-lived discussion, then.
Title: Re: Not-So-United States
Post by: Dan on January 17, 2012, 08:19:51 AM
I dunno. The US has always been a place that's grown. I bet in 2112 it will have continued to do so. I don't know where - parts of Canada or Mexico; perhaps some islands that make no geographic sense - but as long as the US continues to be a (relatively) healthy country it's probably safe.
Title: Re: Not-So-United States
Post by: Markalot on January 17, 2012, 09:31:09 AM
Good grief that's ridiculous.  California is one of the least likely states to secede, in my opinion. 
Title: Re: Not-So-United States
Post by: Butter on January 18, 2012, 06:47:02 AM
California is one of the most dependent states on government handouts, due to the untenability of their statewide budget and general economic climate.  If they split off, they would need to all of a sudden create a federal-esque infrastructure of mammoth proportion to handle things like the massive immigration influx and social programs that the feds handle now.  I am not sure where they would get the trillion dollars they would need to handle that, considering that the state budget is constantly in the red by many billions of dollars.

It's not going to happen.
Title: Re: Not-So-United States
Post by: lutz on January 18, 2012, 09:48:24 AM
What about within the next century? Is it possible that states like California get tired of partisan politics and decide to form their own governments?
Title: Re: Not-So-United States
Post by: va-vacious on January 18, 2012, 01:05:52 PM
Isn't CA just a microcosm of the US? They have just as many conservatives as liberals, (from my understanding)so partisan politics is very much part of what happens there.

For the same reasons Butter listed, I don't think Cali is going anywhere. If anything, it will be more dependent on the feds for infrastructure in the future.
Title: Re: Not-So-United States
Post by: Dan on January 19, 2012, 08:13:07 AM
A century is a long time. I suppose anything could happen in that time frame and yes if there is one state that wanted to break away and be on its own, and be able to actually support itself, then California has got to be the place. But with the current state (and foreseeable future) that's not even close to happening.
Title: Re: Not-So-United States
Post by: daytime drinking on January 27, 2012, 01:25:19 PM
what the hell are you guys talking about?!  it's sooner than we think!  i'm looking forward to this documentary. 

(http://www.moviegoods.com/Assets/product_images/1020/344809.1020.A.jpg)
Title: Re: Not-So-United States
Post by: Dan on January 27, 2012, 06:04:44 PM
I heard today that 7 of the 10 towns/cities on a list published for "hardest places in America to find a job" were all in California.
Title: Re: Not-So-United States
Post by: scurvygirl on January 27, 2012, 08:06:42 PM
I find the idea interesting because it happens in some fiction I've been writing. I'd love to see more debate about it, actually. In my fiction, we'll have 2 factions: those who don't believe the US will break apart, and those that do. Eventually, the debates will become so heated that the US breaks apart into two separate countries. Of course, now that the succession is real, all sorts of craziness happens between the non-believers and those who ended up being right all along.
Title: Re: Not-So-United States
Post by: Buzzstein on January 27, 2012, 11:02:00 PM
I find the idea interesting because it happens in some fiction I've been writing. I'd love to see more debate about it, actually. In my fiction, we'll have 2 factions: those who don't believe the US will break apart, and those that do. Eventually, the debates will become so heated that the US breaks apart into two separate countries. Of course, now that the succession is real, all sorts of craziness happens between the non-believers and those who ended up being right all along.

That is interesting.
Title: Re: Not-So-United States
Post by: euro60 on January 27, 2012, 11:35:53 PM
Any suggestion that the US would break apart into seperate smaller countries is utter craziness into the anytime foreseeable future (i won't say ever since I don't have a crystal ball), and any such suggestion has no truth in facts. Let's be real here.
Title: Re: Not-So-United States
Post by: Homsar on February 08, 2012, 01:40:40 PM
I actually think that the only direction this country can move is towards closer bonds with the rest of the world.  I believe that the eventual collapse of dictatorships will only lead to overall unification.  It's the best chance for the world to prosper.  I wouldn't be surprised to see a world government in 75-150 years.
Title: Re: Not-So-United States
Post by: Dan on February 08, 2012, 01:54:14 PM
Wow. Really?

I guess with all the hatred and so many different people hating on each other I would be completely surprised to see a world govt in 150 years. Maybe you're going in the right direction with larger govts covering more areas, but even that I'd have to think about. I keep seeing stuff about how the Euro's time is up, which indicates smaller and smaller governing areas.
Title: Re: Not-So-United States
Post by: Kwyjibo on February 08, 2012, 01:56:03 PM
I agree with Dan, you can't get all of the US, or even all of North American on the same page about anything, much less the whole world.  Also, just take a look at the European union... that's not working out so well either.
Title: Re: Not-So-United States
Post by: lutz on February 08, 2012, 04:17:20 PM
I actually think that the only direction this country can move is towards closer bonds with the rest of the world.  I believe that the eventual collapse of dictatorships will only lead to overall unification.  It's the best chance for the world to prosper.  I wouldn't be surprised to see a world government in 75-150 years.
More like 75-150 million years (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-16934181).
Title: Re: Not-So-United States
Post by: Homsar on February 09, 2012, 08:15:34 AM
Well with attitudes like that there won't be unity!
 :P
Lutz you can go ahead and tell that to Parliament.
Title: Re: Not-So-United States
Post by: lutz on February 09, 2012, 11:52:55 AM
In fairness, I saw the headline 'America and Asia "getting closer"' and got all excited about the marvelous coincidence. Then I found out they meant geographically :(