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Randomville! => The Locker Room => Topic started by: Zafer Kaya on August 10, 2018, 01:44:17 PM

Title: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: Zafer Kaya on August 10, 2018, 01:44:17 PM
Hell yeah, Danny Ings!

His knees are shot to hell and I bet he doesn't stay healthy for more than two months and Saints are paying a ridiculous 18m for that shit.  But I love Danny Ings.  One of my favorite players.  So I don't care that this move is horrendously stupid and probably dooms Saints.  At last there is someone on the team I truly want to root for.
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: c-lando on August 10, 2018, 02:24:07 PM
Happy New Year, Everybody!
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: foolsgold on August 10, 2018, 02:30:26 PM
Sigh...Maybe next year.
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: euro60 on August 10, 2018, 05:09:18 PM
ManUnited looked like a carbon copy of last year. Score a goal, then sit back, and trust your stingy defense and excellent goalie. And hope for a counter-attack.

By all means Leicester was the equal, if not the better team. But they couldn't quite get it on goal enough, and de Gea made a couple of great saves. (Speaking of which: the commentator mentioned that de Gea had only 1 save in the entire WC. Can that be true? He had 2 saves in the first half alone today.)

I was quite charmed by Leicester, I must say. They should be good.
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: euro60 on September 25, 2018, 10:59:46 PM
with ManUnited losing tonight at home against Derby County in the League Cup, one has to wonder how much time is left for Mourinho...
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: euro60 on October 07, 2018, 10:48:50 PM
So... after 10 games, one-third of the Belgian Jupiler Pro-League regular season is in the bag. Things are bad for my team Lokeren. They have avoided relegation in the last couple of year but things are DIRE now:

1    KRC Genk    10    8    0    2    26
2    Club Brugge    10    8    1    25
3    Anderlecht    10    6    2    2    20
4    Antwerp    10    5    1    4    19
5    Standard    10    5    2    3    18
6    STVV    10    4    1    5    17
7    KAA Gent    10    4    4    2    14
8    KV Oostende    10    4    4    2    14
9    Cercle Brugge    10    3    4    3    12
10    Charleroi    10    3    5    2    11
11    KV Kortrijk    10    3    5    2    11
12    KAS Eupen    10    3    6    1    10
13    Beveren    10    1    3    6    9
14    Lokeren    10    1    7    2    5
15    Zulte Waregem    10    1    7    2    5
16    Excel Moeskroen    10    1    8    1    4

Only 5 points after 10 games. I don't know I can recall a worse start to the season. And I don't know there is a ready solution to make things better...
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: MissKitty on October 08, 2018, 08:17:29 AM
Welcome to the pain club, Euro. Saints are in the same mess. Total shit. Even the lush beauty that is Wesley Hoedt can't make up for the fact that he (and the rest of the squad) are making too many mistakes.
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: euro60 on October 08, 2018, 10:37:42 PM
MK, I can watch all of the Lokeren games streaming, but honestly, i don't have the heart for it right now. This past weekend, in another 6 point relegation battle, they ended up losing at home 1-3. So glad I didn't watch. It's just taking too much out of me if I did.

I watch the Premier League, and see what Southampton is doing (or better: not doing). I feel for you guys, but I don't feel the sense of desperation (yet) for you guys. For me, it is real right now. Relegation is a real possibility. I would be devastated if that would happen. This is a club that just 4 years ago was playing in the Europa League (and quite well at it).
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: euro60 on October 11, 2018, 08:09:20 PM
The only thing anyone in Belgium is talking about is the bombshell that dropped yesterday (Tuesday), as Belgian police conducted many raids and picked up many people in connection with a massive match-fixing scandal. The NYT article gives some flavor:

https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2018/10/10/sports/soccer/10reuters-soccer-fraud-belgium.html

But in the Belgian press and media, they are having a field day as you can well imagine.

Two of Belgium top referees are among those arrested, and are already banned for life.

Apparently all of this started when the Belgian prosecutors were looking at allegations of black or unregulated money circulating in Belgian football involving player brokers. That led them to all kinds of new information in connection with last season's relegation battle, where ultimately KV Mechelen, a (for Belgian standards) decent mid-level club with nice support (regularly selling out their stadium of 15,000) in dramatic fashion was relegated, and KAS Eupen (which regularly plays in front of a mere 1,000 or 2,000 people) stayed up. Get this: on the very last day of the regular competition, Eupen needed to win to ensure staying up. Playing at home against another bad team, it was 0-0 until the 70th min., and then magically Eupen scores not 1, not 2, not 3 but FOUR goals in the last 20 min. Are you kidding me? 

It pains me to see Belgian football and the Jupiler Pro League going through this... But if it is infested and rotten to the core, and it sure looks that way, someone please clean it out, no matter how high up they need to go.

There will be much more to come on this in the days and weeks to come. Belgian football is reeling right now.
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: euro60 on October 22, 2018, 03:07:50 PM

There will be much more to come on this in the days and weeks to come. Belgian football is reeling right now.

The Hurricane 1 sweeping through Belgian football has just become a Hurricane 2 or 3.

In what surely is one of the saddest days in the history of my team Lokeren, its manager Peter Maes, the guy who won two Belgian Cups for Lokeren and returned to coach the team last year, was ARRESTED today and is in jail overnight. It's not really clear what the exact reason is but obviously this is not good.

In total 20 people have been arrested to date. Most of them were released within a few days. Several of the referees and high-powered brokers remain behind bars.
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: MissKitty on October 24, 2018, 05:21:17 PM
Wow, that is quite a scandal. I'm sorry your team has gotten caught up in the ugliness, Euro. Bummer.
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: euro60 on October 24, 2018, 10:41:30 PM
Peter Maes, the Lokeren manager, was released from jail "with conditions" (he can't talk to the press, he is not allowed to leave the country, etc.)

Only time will tell where it will all lead to. But it's very ugly. Very sad. I am stupefied by the whole thing, to be honest. And this is not just about Lokeren, but the entire Belgian Jupiler Pro League.

Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: euro60 on October 27, 2018, 11:54:34 PM
After yet another disappointing result today (0-0 at home against a very beatable team). Peter Maes was fired as manager of Lokeren.

This guy was REVERED by Lokeren fans, for what he has done in the glory years (2010-14)

Honestly, I don't know how this can be fixed. Lokeren is tied for last place in the Belgian Jupiler Pro League.

Very sad and dark days for this team. I am just sick.
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: euro60 on October 31, 2018, 06:04:48 PM
Another day, another bombshell at Lokeren:

The 87 yr. old owner, who has ruled the club for 25 years with an iron fist alongside a very generous bank account**, is looking to sell the club. The sooner, the better, according to the official club announcement.

** Just on Monday, the club announced its new manager, a big name (for Belgium) who has won 2 titles with Club Brugge. This guy isn't coming to Lokeren for charity, if you know what I mean.
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: Zafer Kaya on November 08, 2018, 11:27:08 AM
Les Reed sacked at Southampton.  About goddamn time.  Apparently Martin Hunter is leaving, too.  Good riddance to him, too.

They have both always kinda seemed like dicks to me. Les Reed especially I want to punch in the face everytime I hear him talk.  So cocky. 

You just can't really criticize them when the club was doing so well.  They do deserve a lot of credit for the years prior to 2016.  But now that the club is doing quite poorly, and in large part due to bad transfer and lack of youth development they legit deserve to go, and I'm happy to let loose with the personal grudges.
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: Dan on November 09, 2018, 11:32:16 AM
Hmmm. Interesting that it took this long. Les Reed helped get the club up by learning from Cortese. And both basically treated everyone like they were above everyone else. And then when being a dick stopped helping Les Reed stopped helping. Or something like that.

I have no inside info but I know that the team isn't any good and the club is in a sad place. I fully expect them to be in the Championship next year which, frankly, they won't perform well in either. 
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: Zafer Kaya on November 09, 2018, 01:43:00 PM
Saints are a legitimately bad team.  They probably deserve to go down, and it wouldn't surprise me if they did.

But I'm still hopeful they can stay up, because there are a bunch of horrible teams in PL this year.  This team is no worse than Huddersfield, Fulham, or Cardiff.  The problem is, they aren't *better*, either... but I think the players believe they are.  So the main issue I see is that the other bad teams will be fighting tooth and nail to survive, and Saints players will be calling their agents looking for new clubs.

IF they were to bring in a better manager than Hughes who can get the team fired up and maybe make one astute signing in the winter, they can stay up.  The odds of this happening are about 50/50.  But before they fired Reed the odds were 0%, so it's still a big step in the right direction.
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: Dan on November 09, 2018, 02:00:47 PM
As Dave Merrington would say, "What the Saints need to do here is find someone who can put the ball in the back of the net."

Well, duh.
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: Cockney Rebel on November 11, 2018, 11:35:00 AM
As Dave Merrington would say, "What the Saints need to do here is find someone who can put the ball in the back of the net."

Well, duh.
“If that had gone in, that would have been a goal”

Ref, it DID go in, and it was a fucking goal, you incompetent cunt
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: MissKitty on November 12, 2018, 08:58:22 AM
Charlie was robbed.
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: Zafer Kaya on November 13, 2018, 03:56:33 PM
Yeah, but Bertrand gave up just about the most obvious penalty + straight red you'll ever see and it wasn't called. 

I can't say it evens out, though.  I don't know what it does.  Two of the worst decisions I've ever seen happening in the same game-- which I thought was the worst officiated game I'd seen in awhile BEFORE either of those two calls-- can't really offset each other.  It's not like okay, it's like nothing happened. 

That officiating in that game was just so awful, it's quite fair to say it cost both teams and most of all the fans the match.
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: MissKitty on November 14, 2018, 04:00:13 PM
Yeah, I agree that Bertrand should have gotten a red and they should have gotten to take the penalty. But that disallowed goal from Charlie was still utter bollocks. CR said he heard that match was the ref's first ever prem game. I hope it was also his last. What a shitfest.
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: Dan on November 28, 2018, 02:49:02 PM
This has gone viral so you've probably already seen it, but this is pretty incredible:

https://twitter.com/nurseryinnfc/status/1066708021982765056?s=21

"As a club we’d like to wish Lewis Keers all the best as he parts ways with the Nursery Inn. The young CB has been sentenced to 18 months in a youth offenders institution for attempted robbery. We wish him all the best and hope he comes out less of a fucking idiot."
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: Butter on November 28, 2018, 03:00:55 PM
Not as funny as the Irish lower level team that faked a guy's death to get out of a match last week, but still funny.
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: euro60 on November 28, 2018, 10:45:53 PM
the Irish lower level team that faked a guy's death to get out of a match last week
I saw that too on Belgian media... pretty amazing
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: Dan on December 03, 2018, 11:22:02 AM
Mark  Hughes sacked as Southampton manager. Thank god!

Ever since I posted the below, I've been unhappy and lackadaisical about following them. Re-treads are not a good business plan. Thanks for securing two wins at the end last year, Mark, but that's all we can say. 3 wins in 22 PL games? You should be embarrassed.


(https://i.redd.it/r1ucfmvq8pl01.png)

Clickety click for larger (https://i.redd.it/r1ucfmvq8pl01.png)


I hear that Paul Mitchell might be appointed back. I don't know him enough to have an opinion, but again - a re-tread is not a good business model.
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: euro60 on December 03, 2018, 01:24:51 PM
I watched the Southampton-ManUnited match on Saturday.

Both of these teams looked utterly "dazed and confused".

Mark Hughes gone. When will Mourinho be a goner too?
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: Dan on December 04, 2018, 12:09:10 PM
Thoughts on Ralph Hasenhuttl?
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11700/11571339/ralph-hasenhuttl-agrees-three-year-southampton-contract

Looks like it's him. He sounds exciting. I like that he's unemployed because of contract relations/negotiations and not performance, which is never true for all of those re-treads. He's more likely to get poached by a bigger club, in fact, than fired for poor results in my estimation. I don't know much about him obviously, but I am optimistic at least. Will the club spend for his players? Hopefully they'll offload a few in the winter window, too. I liked one report that I read about this summer's signings that said the Saints signed a lot of players which made the squad deeper, but not better. Hah!
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: euro60 on December 04, 2018, 10:38:52 PM
Looks like a bold move. Good for Southampton to not get some guy who's not been re-hashed so many times in the EPL (looking at you Mark Hughes, I mean, how many times can a guy like that get a manager's job).

But of course only time will tell. If Hasenhuttl manages to keep Southampton up, he'll be the hero. If he doesn't, it'll turn out to be another disastrous decision.

Why exactly did he leave RB Leipzig?
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: Zafer Kaya on December 05, 2018, 10:03:54 AM
I'm not sure why he left RB Leipzig.  He certainly had good results.  It sounds like maybe he didn't get along with some of the staff.  And maybe they were both a little cocky with Lepizig thinking they were going to be a bigtime CL club and didn't need him, and Hassenhuttl thinking he was a bigtime CL managager and didn't need the club.

It's a good hire.  I'm not sure it will work out but it's worth the risk.  I was not that big a fan of hiring Hughes straightaway without even interviewing anyone else.  They gave too much credit to Hughes for keeping them up.  They really didn't play much better under Hughes than they did under Pellegrino.  It was more that Swansea choked than that Saints improved and pulled off a miracle.

Not that I blame Hughes that much, either.  He's not a very good manager, but he's not a TERRIBLE manager either.  Just mediocre and blah.  The main problem really was having very little to work with.  Southampton's team is not particularly talented.  But more importantly, they're put together very poorly.  On paper, they should still be good enough to avoid relegation but when you try to figure out a tactic, formation or first team, it's like some fast players who can't score, and scoring players who can't run, and some passers who can't defend, and some defenders who can't pass, etc. 

I think that a good manager could figure something out, and then if the team finally has a playing philosophy, maybe just one or two transfers could turn them into at least a mid-table side again.  But Hughes is not that good a manager, and IMO he's particularly bad at talent spotting/recruitment.

The real blame though, lies with Les Reed who put this team together.  I was glad that he finally got sacked.  I think once Reed went, it was a sign that they planned to clean house and they rightly didn't trust him with that task.  I would be very excited to get Paul Mitchell back as Director of Football, who was in charge back when Southampton had a great academy and were making all those astute moves that got them back in the PL to begin with.  Tottenham lured him away from Saints, but he hated it there and ended up at RB Leipzig with Hasenhuttl.  So maybe Saints can get both of them.
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: Dan on December 05, 2018, 11:23:42 AM
Ooooh I remember a little of Paul Mitchell now. Vaguely. But yeah, if he was part of the club during the Rickie Lambert years then I think that might be good for us. For some reason I was thinking he was part of the club during the Peter Crouch years or something like that.
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: Zafer Kaya on December 05, 2018, 05:44:15 PM
He didn't bring in Lambert but he was a Cortese guy and there when Saints had the "Black Box" and were hot shit.

I think he joined right before the Championship season, then left after the Meltdown summer to join Pochetino at Tottenham, probably based on MP's  rec.

So I don't know how big a role he played but Tadic, Pelle, Mane, Yoshida, Clyne, Wanyama, Forster, and Steven Davis were brought in while he was there.  Also Gaston Ramirez and Osvaldo but the common wisdom seems to say those were Cortese specialty signings.  He also sold Schneiderlin, Chambers but I think again, most people agree neither he nor Saints had much say in that.

The first year after he left we still had good recruiting-- Alderweireld on loan, Bertrand, VVD.   The summer after that was when it all went to hell and we handed existing players big extensions over wheeling and dealing and have not really gotten anyone real great since.  Some decent players but no impact guys.
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: Dan on December 07, 2018, 12:28:07 PM
A little something for Miss Kitty:

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/european/marian-pahars-southampton-interview-pep-guardiola-manager-depression-mental-health-a8661086.html
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: Cockney Rebel on December 07, 2018, 09:50:11 PM
Hassenhutl is a leap forward, and then some.

Hughes should never have been given the job. Old school, old ideas, old methods.

My contacts inside SFC are suggesting that, yes, Mitchell will be back. Katarina is exerting more influence behind the scenes that might be imagined given her minority shareholding.

However, probably no signings in January. The Chinese owners are cash poor so any buys will have to come as a result of sells. Lots of rumours about Boufal, Sims and maybe even Carillo being recalled from their loan clubs, all three considered “dead weight” by, lets face it, a dead weight manager in MH.

I thought we looked better against both Man U & Spurs. 3 shots off the woodwork against the spuds suggest that we just need a little more luck going our way. That game could easily have ended in a draw, even a cheeky 3-points.

I have more faith in the management now that Les Reed has gone. His decision making has cost the club a LOT of cash in the past 2-3 seasons, not just on shit managers but ridiculous player contracts (Forster for 5-years springing to mind immediately). If Mitchell does come in as DOF there will be a sea change back to grooming the academy players, and I, for one, can’t wait. It’s been an utterly miserable two years or more.
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: euro60 on December 18, 2018, 02:07:26 PM
Mourinho sacked!

After Sunday's dismal performance at Liverpool, this cannot come as a surprise.

Apparently MU want Pocchettino. He's be a complete fool to leave Spurs for the complete mess that is MU (IMHO).
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: Zafer Kaya on December 18, 2018, 02:28:30 PM
I don't know. 

I agree that MU is a team in disarray, and a lousy place to work.  So in a normal situation, I'd agree that it would be stupid to leave Tottenham for Manchester United.

But the twist is, I think Tottenham has a shitty owner and is a bad place to work as well.  It's not the support structure that is making the team successful, it's MP himself.  Tottenham was in sorry shape before MP got there.  And that's generally the case.  If a club is in good shape, they're not sacking their manager and hiring a new one.  So, I could completely understand if he were 1) Not quite as happy at Spurs as you might think, and 2) Confident of his ability to be successful despite bad working conditions.

Will he do it?  I don't know.  I think that Pochettino is both very ambitious and somewhat loyal.  I never had a problem with him leaving Saints.  Nicola Cortese hired him under certain promises and Cortese definitely had a huge hand in how things were run and was very particular.  Without Cortese, the whole situation at Saints was going to be very different from what he signed up for.  I think had Cortese stayed at Southampton, Pochettino would have turned down Spuds and stayed as well, at least for another season or so.

Given how successful Pochettino has been and assuming he keeps it up, he will move to a bigger club sooner or later.  The question just becomes whether he wants to make the move now and where he wants to go.  I'm not sure MU holds as much appeal to him as it might others, but I mean it's still Manchester United.  I also think he has a legit shot to win the league this year, but if he doesn't his stock is rising and he'll still have plenty of opportunities in the summer.... but it's still Manchester United.

I think Pochettino's ultimate goal is probably Madrid or Barca but Manchester United might be a better stepping stone than staying at Tottenham.  And I also don't feel like he feels he owes Tottenham anything.  He's been there a few seasons now and turned their fortunes around.
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: euro60 on December 23, 2018, 11:56:01 PM
Updated standings in the Belgian Jupiler Pro League after 20 (out of 30) regular competition matches

1   KRC Genk   20   13   1   6   46/18   45
2   Club Brugge   20   11   4   5   47/22   38
3   Antwerp   20   10   5   5   28/23   35
4   Standard   20   9   5   6   32/22   33
5   STVV   20   8   4   8   31/23   32
6   Anderlecht   20   9   7   4   34/27   31
7   KAA Gent   20   9   7   4   37/33   31
8   Charleroi   20   9   8   3   32/28   30
9   Cercle Brugge   20   7   9   4   24/38   25
10   KV Kortrijk   20   6   7   7   24/28   25
11   KAS Eupen   20   7   12   1   21/38   22
12   KV Oostende   20   6   10   4   20/36   22
13   Zulte Waregem   20   5   10   5   31/42   20
14   Waasland-Beveren   20   4   8   8   23/27   20
15   Excel Moeskroen   20   4   11   5   15/25   17
16   KSC Lokeren   20   3   12   5   19/34   14

This is a very cold and dire Christmas for Lokeren fans, honestly I'm not sure the team can be saved from relegation. So incredibly sad. Lokeren thrived in the Europa League just 3 years ago!
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: Dan on December 24, 2018, 01:55:15 PM
It's amazing how fast the fortunes can turn in the world of football, isn't it?

Right now it feels like Southampton can (almost) qualify for Europe next year, while three weeks ago I didn't even care about them.
A guy in my office is still saying that Pochettino is still the favorite to take over the Manchester United job as there is still that lingering "interim" tag for Ole Gunnar Solskjær. So that means, if true, that Ralph Hasenhüttl is the odds on favorite for the Tottenham job! Ha!
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: euro60 on January 08, 2019, 12:19:00 AM
Watched ManCity-Liverpool the other day. What a fabulous game that was. Football at its best.
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: euro60 on February 16, 2019, 10:53:36 PM
Does anyone know which US channel is broadcasting the FA Cup games going on this weekend? I couldn't find it. Surely some channel is?!?
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: c-lando on February 18, 2019, 08:19:56 AM
Does anyone know which US channel is broadcasting the FA Cup games going on this weekend? I couldn't find it. Surely some channel is?!?

Using unverified rantings from The Greg to respond to this.
ESPN is a dickhead. They buy the rights to these matches and then they don't air them. I guess they were only available on-line.
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: c-lando on February 18, 2019, 08:21:28 AM
Does anyone know which US channel is broadcasting the FA Cup games going on this weekend? I couldn't find it. Surely some channel is?!?

Using unverified rantings from The Greg to respond to this.
ESPN is a dickhead. They buy the rights to these matches and then they don't air them. I guess they were only available on-line.

From the dickhead horse's own mouth:
https://espnmediazone.com/us/press-releases/2018/08/espn-becomes-exclusive-presenter-of-emirates-fa-cup-in-u-s-through-new-rights-agreement/

Basically, they are only on ESPN+. Wankers.
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: Cockney Rebel on February 18, 2019, 02:21:42 PM
ESPN+

Great quality HD streams. Tons better than the shitty resolution nBCSportsGold ever manages.
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: euro60 on February 18, 2019, 10:36:25 PM
wow, this just blows the mind, really.

ESPN+???
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: Cockney Rebel on February 18, 2019, 10:54:53 PM
wow, this just blows the mind, really.

ESPN+???
They have shown pretty every single match in the last 4 rounds, yes.
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: euro60 on February 20, 2019, 01:27:27 PM
Is the same true for the Carabao Cup final on Sunday? I sure hope not! That should be a great match (Chelsea-ManCity).

Not to mention that Sunday morning kicks off with a doozy in the Premiership (ManUnited-Liverpool)!
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: Cockney Rebel on February 20, 2019, 05:44:26 PM
Yes, it’s in ESPN+

Btw, Liverpool/Manure is not THE big match Sunday morning.
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: euro60 on February 20, 2019, 10:40:41 PM
If that is the case, and I'm not doubting what you say, I am completely dumbfounded. So you have the TV rights to this, and then decide not to broadcast it on TV (instead just streaming it)? Wow, just wow. I cannot imagine that if NBC had the TV rights, they'd just stream it. ESPN has multiple channels, and yet they cannot find a way somehow, somewhere, to put Chelsea-ManCity on the tube? Shows how much ESPN cares about football...

As to your snarky comment about ManCity-Liverpool not being THE big match on Sunday morning, I suppose you are referring to Arsenal-Southampton, and I get it as you are a die-hard Saints fan. But for the neutral viewer, the choice is pretty clear...
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: Zafer Kaya on February 21, 2019, 12:26:36 AM
Not sure if you know this, but NBC does indeed have the rights to all the Premier League games and streams the majority of them.  It’s ON THE TUBE.  It’s just streamed to the tube which really makes no difference to the viewer. 

Now, what does suck is you have to pay extra for it.  But it’s not like regular ESPN is actually free.

But this is exactly why many of us cut the cord.  You are paying a minimum extra $30 a month to get channels like ESPNDeportes and RSN’s that are mostly awful call in shows.  ESPN+ is $5.00 a month.  Premier League Pass is $50 a year, so like $4 a month.

So you could go to streaming, add ESPN+ and Premier League Pass and see more things you really want, for cheaper. 
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: Dan on February 21, 2019, 09:38:13 AM
If that is the case, and I'm not doubting what you say, I am completely dumbfounded. So you have the TV rights to this, and then decide not to broadcast it on TV (instead just streaming it)? Wow, just wow. I cannot imagine that if NBC had the TV rights, they'd just stream it. ESPN has multiple channels, and yet they cannot find a way somehow, somewhere, to put Chelsea-ManCity on the tube? Shows how much ESPN cares about football...

This is a way for them to get viewers to subscribe. They bought the rights to something and they want YOU to subscribe to their service. If they put it on ESPN2, would you subscribe to their standalone app? No, you wouldn't. They could find space for it on the tube - they just don't want to. They want subscribers. How don't you see this?
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: euro60 on February 21, 2019, 10:28:46 AM
Surely I am behind the times. But I always thought that the goal was to get as many people as possible to watch the programming. And that would be to put it on one of their TV channels, not by simply streaming it.

Or put differently, if streaming is such a great idea, why let's just go ahead and delete all TV channels and streaming everything.

(Neither here nor there, but it reminds me of that great debate about too much traffic being on the interstate, and that adding lanes won't solve anything. Really? Then why not REDUCE the interstate to a single lane?)
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: Kwyjibo on February 21, 2019, 11:31:46 AM
I find your disdain for all things streaming truly amusing and absurd.
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: Dan on February 21, 2019, 01:59:58 PM
No, the goal is no longer to get as many people as possible to watch the programming. In the classic business models, or old business models, the idea was that if more people were watching, then you could charge your advertisers more, which is where your money was made. However, in today's world that model is broken as there are so many different places for eyeballs that the numbers of viewers of a particular program is so small that the advertisers aren't as interested.

Instead, what seems to be working as a potential business model is a subscription based service. Netflix seems to be the biggest, and people look at their subscriber numbers (almost 150 million) and then multiply that by the monthly costs of subscribing (say, $10) and realize Netflix is making $1.5 billion per month. Do you understand how much money that is? $18 billion per year is the new business model. Not pennies from advertisers.

So everyone, ESPN included, is seeing that and saying "let's get users to pay us to look at our content." Hence the FA Cup rights. I don't consider myself young or even knowledgeable of business practices or the TV and Film Industries, so I'm surprised to be explaining it.

Maybe it collapses, maybe it shifts, maybe there are other ideas in the pipeline. Personally I think the model breaks down when everyone is subscribing to numerous services and we all get annoyed, but it's also not going away. Bundles of services might work but we'll see.

As for Highways, you're missing the fundamental point. When a highway is expanded, a phenomenon called "induced demand" kicks in. This is to say that examining the demand of vehicles trying to use a highway in the existing condition shows the engineers that X people want to use the highway. If there are more people wanting to use the highway the formulas say "well then, add another lane, and there's more capacity, so then the problem is solved." But after building highways for a hundred years, we know now that Induced Demand isn't factored into that reasoning. Induced Demand is the demand that is brought about by expanding the highway. Meaning: if we expand the highway, X people won't want to use the highway - now X+Y people will, because they will think "hey, there's now 4 lanes of highway, surely there's room for me" but those Y people weren't thinking that when there were only 3 lanes for traffic. As for reducing the highway, well, that's actually a thing that is happening. Google the Embarcadero Freeway if you want to see something that's already happened, or the Sheridan Expressway that is supposedly happening now. We are realizing that Highways have a purpose - intercity transportation, shipping - but that they are terrible for local neighborhoods and awful for humans at the person-scale. Transportation solutions to traffic jams on highways are numerous, but American cities were built around the freeway so it's a long and slow scrape to get people to try other ideas. Cincinnati actually built a streetcar. Forgetting if it's successful or not, it's amazing that they even got it built...and good for them for doing so. It's a baby step but any progress is good.
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: Zafer Kaya on February 21, 2019, 02:51:30 PM
Or put differently, if streaming is such a great idea, why let's just go ahead and delete all TV channels and streaming everything.

This is already happening.  In maybe three or four years streaming will be the dominant form of "TV."

It's not like I think streaming is so great.  It's that I'm puzzled why you think streaming is so bad.

The equation never really changes.  The content providers want as much control over their content as possible and to monetize it as much as possible.  The viewers want them to have all the control and to get it all for free.  Somewhere, there's a delivery form, revenue model, and price where both sides can agree.

That was true when TV challenged radio, and then cable took on over-the-air TV.  And now it's streaming.  And even in the same technology every content provider competes with others for your $$ and attention.  I fully expect that when streaming has taken over cable, they will fully turn the screws and we won't have month-to-month subscriptions and they'll start padding their services with useless content just like cable.  The streaming providers like YouTube.TV or Playstation Vue will be the same as FIOS or Spectrum are now.

Or it may be that YouTube.TV loses, because the content providers don't like them just like they don't like cable providers.  ESPN would much rather have me watch ESPN on their own app, where the control the content, they collect the money directly, they can track all my usage and they get to choose what ads to show me.

Or maybe the content creators will be like "Why do need any sort of channel as a middleman at all?"  People seem to be just fine paying watching racist fuckups do stupid things on youtube.  It costs nothing to produce that.

But anyway, the point is the equation is always the same.  Someone creates and/or owns content that people want to consume.  People will pay, one way or the other to consume it.  That has nothing to do with streaming.  It's the same arrangement we had with cable.

Nothing happens with streaming.  You still point your remote control at your TV and a show comes on.  The show will have shitty ads and/or they will charge you too much to see it.  There will be way more shitty shows than good shows.  Why does it matter at all if the show comes through a coax cable to the back of your TV or is wireless sent from your router?
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: euro60 on February 21, 2019, 10:50:10 PM
Thanks for all the insightful comments, it really is an eye-opener to me. Like I said, I (now age 58) am surely behind the times.

As a complete aside, I was contacted today by the Cincinnati Business Courier, they are getting ready to do a "where are they now" story of the Class of 1999 of Forty Under 40, of which I was one of them. It FUCKING blows the mind. I was once an under 40 up-and-coming, and recognized for that. It seems like yesterday that I was at that luncheon where we the class of 1999 were recognized for that.

Now I am a senior partner in the law firm, and my general mind set about everything really is: don't change a thing! I like the way things are, and I want them to stay just like they are and DON'T CHANGE ANYTHING. You can transpose that to the TV watching landscape. I don't have NetFlix, or any other streaming service, and I'm not interested in it. I just want to watch what I want on my Spectrum cable service, period. I know that is not a realistic perspective, but I can't help the way I feel.

As a further, yet further, aside. Time. The most precious thing there is. And the only thing you cannot buy. If I knew back then (in 1999), I might have done certain things differently. But I'm not complaining, I like where I'm at in life.
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: euro60 on February 23, 2019, 12:20:43 AM
I noticed that the Chelsea-ManCity Carabao Final will be shown on ESPN, woohoo!
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: Zafer Kaya on February 23, 2019, 12:39:21 AM
I noticed that the Chelsea-ManCity Carabao Final will be shown on ESPN, woohoo!

You sure about that?  Because I think it’s only on ESPN+.  Don’t shoot the messenger.
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: euro60 on February 24, 2019, 10:42:43 PM
I noticed that the Chelsea-ManCity Carabao Final will be shown on ESPN, woohoo!

You sure about that?  Because I think it’s only on ESPN+.  Don’t shoot the messenger.
you are right... I had looked it up on line, and it was on ESPN's schedule,,, but then what it came to being, it was not. Instead, ESPN choose to have SportsCenter, 2 women college games on 2 channels, and some other stuff... So ESPN thinks it's a better choice to air 2 women college games on 2 channels than to air Chelsea-ManCity. Shows how much ESPN cares about soccer....
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: MissKitty on February 25, 2019, 08:16:33 AM
I think ESPN is savvy enough to know that people passionate about soccer are willing to pay for it. IDK how many fans of women's college basketball there are that'd be willing to pay for it, but I'm guessing it isn't nearly as many, so those are the ones aired "for free."

We watched the Chelsea v City game at home, but it was also shown at plenty of area pubs, so you could always do that if you are anti-ESPN+.
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: Zafer Kaya on February 25, 2019, 10:30:45 AM
ESPN doesn't care about anything but $$.  They are losing a ton of subscribers, and they are a hugely expensive channel to operate because they are paying tons of money for all those rights to NBA, NFL, and college hoops. 

The way they are working around this is by charging cable and streaming companies more and more to carry ESPN (which gets passed on to you).  And by doing what MissKitty described-- charging more for premium content whenever they can.

Something like Carabao Cup is perfect for ESPN+ from their standpoint, because soccer in the US has a small, but intense audience.  The average blue collar sports guy does not care about soccer, but if you're into either team, or PL or soccer in general last week's game was a can't miss.  So they charge for it, and then on the regular channel they show something blandly satisfying where maybe no one is really into women's hoops but if it's on they'll watch it plus it fulfills other goals.

None of this really has to do with streaming.  If streaming did not exist, ESPN would have a premium cable channel.  And really, ESPN+ is just a premium cable channel.  You can't even get it unless you already have ESPN on cable or streaming provider.  So they want you to pay $8.00 PLUS a premium.  The only thing streaming has to do with it is that streaming is the cool new thing so ESPN is trying to sell that as a perk.  And they force you to use their app which builds their brand and helps them collect data.  Plus most people don't care because streaming is the same as cable to them.

I think ESPN is in trouble.  They're still making assloads of money but IMO they are already in like a late 1990's music industry death spiral.  People have alternatives to cable and many of them are willing to forgo ESPN.  So ESPN is making up for it by charging the remaining users more, which makes more people leave.  Plus there's pirate streaming sucking viewers just like there pirating CD's.

The formula that used to work for ESPN was they could show you tons of cheap shit.  Like you would watch *anything* on ESPN whether it was bowling or Australian Rules Football or some shitty college hoops game.  Because at least it was sports, and no one else had sports.  And they had ESPN Sports Center which was relatively cheap to produce, but you could get people to tune into it religiously just about every night.  It was so much better than the 5 minute news segment you'd get on local news.  But now with the internet, everyone knows what is happening in every game including highlights.

Nowadays, the only reason to tune into ESPN is if they have NFL football or something else.  But they pay an assload for that because everyone else wants it too.  There's no profit margin in the big sports events.  They're for hooking people in, and driving revenue to other things.  Like if Amazon is showing me NFL games, that's an incentive to get Prime but then Prime means I get cheap shipping on Amazon things so maybe I'll order more shit.  ESPN has nothing else.  If you only watch ESPN for the big games, and then don't watch women's softball or the ESPYS or one of the Two Guys Scream at Each Other shows, they are screwed.
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: euro60 on March 03, 2019, 10:48:02 PM
What had been apparent for weeks, if not longer, is now a reality. My club Lokeren has been relegated from the Belgium top flight (Jupiler Pro League), and with 2 match days to go no less. There was an expose in one of Belgium's leading newspapers (De Standaard) called "House of Cards at Daknam" (the latter being the name of Lokeren's stadium) on Saturday, and it wasn't a pretty picture. Utter chaos with players and player's agents coming and going (and cashing in), likewise with managers (3 this year), and it all went to sh*t, frankly.

Lokeren had once before been relegated (in 1993) but climbed back up 3 years later. I can only hope they will do so again in short order. The funny thing is that the anxiety that was around the club in the last few years, and which I as a fan certainly had, fighting relegation, is now gone, as it has for me. I'm just resigned to it. But lordy, how quick the downfall has come for a club that won the Belgian equivalent of the FA Cup in 2012 and again in 2014, and did so well in the Europa League in the 2014-15 season (and I have the scarfs to remind me).


1.   Genk    28   17   8   3   59:28   59   
2.   Brugge    28   15   8   5   59:30   53   
3.   Antwerp   28   14   7   7   38:30   49   
4.   Standard   28   13   8   7   43:31   47   
5.   STVV   28   12   10   6   46:33   46   
6.   Anderlecht   28   13   6   9   45:34   45   
7.   Gent           28   13   5   10   49:44   44   
8.   Kortrijk   28   11   7   10   42:40   40   
9.   Charleroi   28   11   6   11   40:40   39   
10.   Mouscron   28   10   6   12   30:31   36   
11.   Waregem    28   8   7   13   45:56   31   
12.   Eupen    28   9   2   17   32:52   29   
13.   Cercle     28   7   7   14   33:54   28   
14.   Oostende    28   6   9   13   28:48   27   
15.   Beveren   28   5   11   12   33:45   26   
16.   Lokeren   28   4   5   19   25:51   17
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: MissKitty on March 04, 2019, 03:31:19 PM
Ouch. Sorry, Euro.

Saints are in the relegation struggle right now too, so I can certainly empathize.
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: euro60 on April 17, 2019, 10:39:05 PM
Anyone else watch the titanic struggle today between ManCity and Spurs in the Champions League? Truly a game for the ages, in so many ways. 5 goals in the first 20 min. That was just the appetizer! I don't know what to make of City's apparent winning goal in the 93rd min., then disallowed by VAR for offside (?). Regardless, this was one of the best soccer games I've seen in a long, long time.
Title: Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
Post by: euro60 on April 30, 2019, 10:57:21 PM
The Premier League has been fantastic this year.

The race between ManCity and Liverpool has been beyond belief. One of those will not win the title, and that is a shame. Either of those would in any other year have been the clear the winner.

And the titanic struggle between the rest of the "big six" to gain the coveted 3-4 spots for Champions League is equally enthralling.

2 match days to so, and so much to be decided still!