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Randomville! => The Locker Room => Topic started by: euro60 on December 23, 2018, 01:50:57 AM

Title: Cincinnati Reds 2019
Post by: euro60 on December 23, 2018, 01:50:57 AM
Yeah, interesting deal.

I still think the Reds should be rebuilding, and this deal moves them in the opposite direction.  So it is easy at firstly blush to just slam this trade.

But OTOH, they aren't taking on any long term obligations.  I think Puig is a bit of a headcase who might blow up in the Reds' face. But I meN, you have to take a bit of a risk.  If Puig weren't who he is, there's no way he'd be abailable.

The Puig risk us offset by Kemp, who I think is a pretty cool guy.  Unfgirtinstely, I think the tank is empty.  But I think he us still an asset.  He's no MVP, but could still be a monster 4th OF/bench bat.

Wood is a great pitcher if he can stay healthy which I seriously doubt he will.  But I'm not going to fing the Reds fir that.  If he could pitch 200 IP reliably with a 3-ish ERS, he wouldn't be on the market

On paper,this team looks competitive if you assume health and repeat performances of last year.  Not favorites, but possibly righting therw.  The problem is there is a ton more downside from that baseline than there is upside.

It is a good trade if you want to take a stab at winning.  If it does not work, you just set back your rebuild one year.  Maybe not even, if they can flip some of those players if they are out of it.  And maybe some if the young players benefit from veteran presence.  They did not blow up the farm system, just dinged it a bit.

I would be grudgingly okay with this trade if I were a Reds fan.  I'd prefer them rebuild, but if they do not want to do that this is the next best thing.

That offense will not be quite as good as you think it is, though. Sure, they will put some points on the board in that park, but so will their opponents.

I have to say I was nothing short of stunned, STUNNED, when I heard about this trade.

I mean, the economics are very hard to grasp, if they are to grasp at all. I surely don't understand them. (Neither does Reds CEO Bob Castellini when asked about by the Enquirer's sports columnist.)

But I will admit that it grabbed my attention, something the Reds haven't done in a loooooong time.

Worst case scenario: Kemp, Puig, and Wood stay here for a year and then are gone. But it should make the Reds immediately "competitive" in the stacked NL Central. Something they haven't done in the last 4 years (and with dramatic attendance falloff to boot). Honestly, I had no intend to attend but more than 1 or 2 games (probably work-related) in 2019, but now? I might go to a few, even some more, if the Reds aren't out of contention after the first month or so, as they have been in recent years.

Bottom line: this is the biggest trade in Reds Country since Griffey Jr., and that was.... 19 years ago, yes, 19 years ago!
Title: Re: Cincinnati Reds 2019
Post by: daytime drinking on December 23, 2018, 08:41:15 AM
or maybe since the mat latos deal.  that's the last time i can remember we razed the farm.  yonder alonso, yasmani grandal, didi gregorius, brad boxberger if memory serves me.  all those guys turned into quality everyday players.  latos surely proved worth even after he was traded.  got disco.  when healthy he's a middle of the road starter.  and latos is out of the league before he turned thirty 
Title: Re: Cincinnati Reds 2019
Post by: Zafer Kaya on December 23, 2018, 10:22:52 AM
The Dodgers are drowning in talent.  Alex Verdugo has spent two seasons in AAA now, and he is probably an above average MLB OF.  I donít mean potentially.  I mean he already is.

People keep talking about how the Dodgers that got traded were on their last year, but the reality is the contracts did not matter.  These were guys the Dodgers were trying to get rid of anyway.  They are headaches to have on your team.  If Wood is healthy you kind of have to start him, but you cannot count on him to be healthy.  Puig is a headcase.  Itís awkward to bench Kemp but the truth is he is probably done.

So the Dodgers are so good that despite losing some quality players this is a bit of addition by subtraction for them.  And they free up salary cap money to bring in a stud FA.  And got a couple of pieces for the future to keep their farm stocked. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati Reds 2019
Post by: daytime drinking on December 24, 2018, 08:42:12 AM
you'd be hard pressed to find any red fan not who doesn't like this trade.  kemp had a pedestrian second half but he's not going to play everyday so whatever production he can give is a plus.  awesome pinch hitter i imagine he will be
Title: Re: Cincinnati Reds 2019
Post by: daytime drinking on January 29, 2019, 09:27:42 AM
man, if we only lose that india kid to get realmuto, hot damn 
Title: Re: Cincinnati Reds 2019
Post by: Zafer Kaya on January 29, 2019, 11:12:42 AM
If you could get Realmuto for just India (or India as the centerpiece) that would be a steal. 

Title: Re: Cincinnati Reds 2019
Post by: euro60 on March 07, 2019, 10:37:53 PM
I happen to watch a bit of the Reds' pre-season game tonight.

Can anyone explain to me the new weird crest on the Reds uniform? Is is something to do with the Reds' 150 season?
Title: Re: Cincinnati Reds 2019
Post by: foolsgold on March 08, 2019, 07:04:10 AM
https://www.mlb.com/cut4/the-reds-will-have-15-throwback-uniforms-in-2019-c300273754
Title: Re: Cincinnati Reds 2019
Post by: Butter on March 12, 2019, 08:22:15 AM
To distract you from the fact that they're still not going to be good.
Title: Re: Cincinnati Reds 2019
Post by: Zafer Kaya on March 12, 2019, 11:37:37 AM
Yeah... I don't know. 

On the plus side:  The Reds should be a lot better.  IMO, the NL Central probably isn't as strong this year as last year.

On the minus side:  There's plenty of room for the Reds to be "a lot better" and still not be very good.  The NL Central was unreal last year, so a small step back still yields an insanely competitive and fairly strong division.

I was looking at the projected standings in Fangraphs and they had the Reds at exactly .500.  That seems to be the strong consensus amongst most sites.  Which seems about right to me.  They would finish 7 games behind the Cubs.  But that's not THAT much.  It wouldn't be a shock for the Cubs to be worse than expected and the Reds better and they make up that 7 games.  Except the Reds are also projected to finish behind the Brewers and the Cardinals.  That's how everyone has them-- right around .500 and finishing in 4th place.  So they need either need a bunch of teams to underachieve, or they need to be way better than than projected. 

They have like, a chance.  Just not a very good one.  But they didn't screw themselves over in the long-term to improve the team, so that's good.  They had the option of either just punting this year and taking the high draft picks, or committing some money and giving themselves a half-chance.  They picked the second option and it could work out.  If you're out of the race near at the deadline, you trade the guys you just got for... not a lot but if your scouting is good you can get some good players out of the B level prospects they will get offered.

I have no problem with what they did this offseason.  It didn't really hurt them, and it could end up being a clever strategy.  You just have to trust that the Reds know what they're doing now, and won't try to extend the players or refuse to trade them.  Which is the part I have trouble with.  Because you can also kinda look at this offseason as the Reds once again looking to fading/questionable vets as short-term fixes that never work, and they just kind of got some halfway decent guys this time.  So they are perfecting their strategy, but not addressing the larger problem that the strategy isn't a very good one.

Title: Re: Cincinnati Reds 2019
Post by: Zafer Kaya on March 23, 2019, 06:52:10 PM
People need to quit complaining about Senzel.  If you can trade two weeks without a player as a rookie for one full year of that player in his prime, you do it every time.

I would leave Senzel down for two weeks even with Gennett hurt.  Senzel should definitely be super angry because he just got screwed out of a year of free agency.  But his loss is the Redsí gain.

Plus, heís coming off an injury that stopped him from playing for half a season and heís learning a new position.  So a few weeks to get in the groove kinda makes sense even without service time issues. 

Phil Ervin is probably getting screwed more than Senzel.  I bet Scheblerís agent is not complaining about service time manipulation.

Title: Re: Cincinnati Reds 2019
Post by: euro60 on March 23, 2019, 10:49:46 PM
Scooter Gennett being out for 2-3 months is a major bummer for the Reds. He was arguably the Reds' best player last year.

I don't know what to make of the Senzel situation, to be honest.

I just hope that the Gennett injury isn't a forbearance of the Reds' season <sigh>
Title: Re: Cincinnati Reds 2019
Post by: daytime drinking on March 24, 2019, 09:49:24 AM
derek dietrich is scooter 2.0
Title: Re: Cincinnati Reds 2019
Post by: euro60 on April 03, 2019, 05:56:33 PM
Is the Reds' season over already? They have looked absolutely horrendous, playing with the energy of a dead door nail (did I just make up a new word?).

The attendance (other than Opening Day) has matched accordingly. Check out these jaw dropping numbers (remember, these are not actual attendance numbers, but tickets sold):

Monday 4/1: 7,799 (all-time new record low for GABP)
Tuesday 4/2: 10,195
Today: 13,439

I look out at GABP from my office and frankly you could barely tell that there have been games going on these last 3 days. Absolutely amazing.
Title: Re: Cincinnati Reds 2019
Post by: daytime drinking on April 03, 2019, 10:06:18 PM
it's pretty funny.  hunter green's getting tugged and apathy is slowly setting in.  pro sports in this city suck balls.  thank god for college hoops 
Title: Re: Cincinnati Reds 2019
Post by: euro60 on April 03, 2019, 10:46:26 PM
it's pretty funny.  hunter green's getting tugged and apathy is slowly setting in.  pro sports in this city suck balls.  thank god for FC Cincinnati
corrected that for you ;=)
Title: Re: Cincinnati Reds 2019
Post by: daytime drinking on April 03, 2019, 10:56:49 PM
forgot about them.  hope it works out
Title: Re: Cincinnati Reds 2019
Post by: Zafer Kaya on April 04, 2019, 10:43:45 AM
I mean, you can't write off a team based on five games. But it really wouldn't be that much of a shock if the Reds sucked this year.  Sonny Gray had a near 5.00 ERA last year, and Roark is the kind of fifth starter type that lives on the margin and could just massively suck at any time.  He loses like .25 mph off his crappy fastball or the tiniest sliver of command and he's awful.

I think Winker will be good, Senzel will be good if he's ever healthy, and Ervin might be pretty good.  I don't think Castillo will be a real Kershaw ace but he's pretty good and ace-like in streaks a la Cueto.  DeSclafini is probably pretty good if he can stay healthy.  So they do have some decent and/or exciting pieces.  They deserve a little better attendance than they are getting based on the talent on paper. 

But I think everyone has just kind of written the franchise and Castellini.  It's like even if they sort of luck their way into being semi-decent this year everyone knows they'll just fuck it up so why bother getting your hopes up? 
Title: Re: Cincinnati Reds 2019
Post by: euro60 on April 04, 2019, 10:48:35 PM
I mean, you can't write off a team based on five games.
What about after six games?

Anyhow, whatever interest I had in the Reds with that monster trade with the Dodgers (and other moves) in the off-season has pretty much disappeared. My big worry now is how am I going to fill our firm's suite at GABP with clients that I've signed up for in June? Seems like a long time away. A worry for another day, I suppose.

Meanwhile, client interest in our suite for FCC games is at an all time high. I'm hosting on May 11, and have plenty of clients already on board for that.
Title: Re: Cincinnati Reds 2019
Post by: Butter on April 05, 2019, 07:21:32 AM
If the hitting comes around, the Reds will actually be mediocre this year.  Just everybody coming out hitting like crap is really just bad luck. 

That said, I still watched women's tennis and the NIT final last night rather than the Reds game.  Sloane Stephens and Ajla Tomljanovich.  It was a good match!  And I knew the Reds would fuck it up anyway, which they did.
Title: Re: Cincinnati Reds 2019
Post by: euro60 on April 05, 2019, 11:24:04 PM
And I knew the Reds would fuck it up anyway, which they did.
And they did again tonight. 3rd time shut out, first this happened since 1989, yes 30 years ago, and yes this is how bad it is right now.

Incidentally, I love watching tennis too. Watched the Miami Open here and there.
Title: Re: Cincinnati Reds 2019
Post by: Zafer Kaya on April 17, 2019, 12:04:34 AM
Is it me, or is David Bell a really shitty manager?

I donít have a problem with Votto batting first, per se.  Or really anywhere else.  But pickup a lineup and batting order and stick with it. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati Reds 2019
Post by: euro60 on April 17, 2019, 10:40:29 PM
Reds swept by the Dodgers. <sigh>

Seemingly settling into last place comfortably indeed.
Title: Re: Cincinnati Reds 2019
Post by: euro60 on April 30, 2019, 11:00:11 PM
Reds still in last place, but showing signs of life. Darn that they lose tonight at the Mets in extra innings... What is wrong with closer Iglesias, so reliable in 17-18?
Title: Re: Cincinnati Reds 2019
Post by: Zafer Kaya on May 01, 2019, 02:58:36 PM
I would guess nothing is wrong with Iglesias. 

Iglesias has always been a little over-rated, IMO.  He walks a few too many, and he gives up too many flyballs in a bad park to give up flyballs.  TBF, that's the case with a shit-ton of closers.  Iglesias is a perfectly fine, generally reliable, better-than-average closer.  If you have him, there's no need to spend a bunch of money trying to improve that position.

I'm just saying, he's not at the level where a few blown saves should make anyone think he's injured or something drastic has happened.  Naw... he's just a very good but not great closer, and very good but not great closers will inexplicably suck for stretches.  Something goes off with their mechanics, they suck for a bit, they figure it out, and then it's like nothing ever happened the whole rest of the season.

Team looks better without Kemp in the lineup.  Hopefully his injury is worse than they thought.  Now you just have to hope Schlebler runs into a wall.
Title: Re: Cincinnati Reds 2019
Post by: daytime drinking on May 02, 2019, 03:33:38 PM
senzel is supposed to come up i guess this weekend which will mean schebby gets sent down.  if that's an option
Title: Re: Cincinnati Reds 2019
Post by: Zafer Kaya on May 02, 2019, 04:00:05 PM
It doesn't make sense to send Schebler down, actually.  It's not like he just needs some AAA seasoning and he'll get better.  This is all he is and will ever be.  He's a crappy bat off the bench.  He just shouldn't be starting.

They will probably send down Ervin, who probably could use the everyday AB's.  Or one of their shitty relievers.  Or DFA Zach Duke.  DFA Puig and Kemp while you're at it.  Derek Dietrich can go.  They are carrying three shitty catchers, any one of them can go.  There are basically like 15 spots on the 25 man roster that are useless.

They had ONE really good prospect and ONE really good, tradeable player nearing the end of his contract.  They happen to play the same position.  So common sense dictates you trade Gennett and that frees up a position for Senzel, and you get back an outfield prospect in return so now you have TWO good prospects and someone to play OF instead of a faded, over-priced vet.

People are going to criticize the Reds for the moves they made in the offseason.  But none of those moves really hurt them.  It's the moves they didn't make at the trade deadline to build a core.  In the offseason all they did was throw some money at some dudes like why not?  It looked impressive, but it really didn't help or hurt them that much at all.





Title: Re: Cincinnati Reds 2019
Post by: euro60 on May 02, 2019, 10:47:21 PM
So the Reds beat the Mets 1-0 last night, and then turn right back around, and lose 1-0 today, by a home run of the opposing pitcher, who incidentally then goes 9 innings to end the affair. Wow.

Reds starting pitching has been a pleasant surprise.

OTOH, the power drop-off of Joey Votto has become a major concern. I mean, the guy has 5, count them, 5 RBIs to date, 6 weeks into the season. I love the guy, but wow.... The Enquirer's sport columnist, Doc, had a write-up about it a few days ago, and looked at Votto's astonishing power drop-off after the 2017 season (when Votto finished 2nd in the league's MVP vote). Look, there isn't a guy more dedicated to the game than Votto, and nobody will ever question that or his character. He is probably harder on himself than anyone of us is on him. But he also makes a guaranteed $25 mill. a year, and for the next 4 1/2 years (through 2023 when he will be 40). Unless he can turn this around, what do you do with a guy like that? I'm thinking you ride it our as long as you can, perhaps over the next 2 years, and then make him a part of the Reds coaching or front-office team. I mean, he's a legend here, and nobody wishes a single bad thing for the guy. And I think he's a major league manager in the making.
Title: Re: Cincinnati Reds 2019
Post by: Zafer Kaya on May 03, 2019, 01:49:37 PM
It was DeGrom and Syndergaard so you can't really fault the Reds too much.  I would look at those two 1-0 games as a positive sign as to how good their pitching has been.  And a split is really not too bad overall.  It's all the other games where the Reds can't hit for shit that's the problem.

The time to do something about Votto was three years ago.  As it is... like you said, no one works harder than he does, he's just getting old.  You can't trade him now, because the fans would revolt and besides you wouldn't get that much for him.  And even if he sucks for the rest of the contract (but I think he still has a bit left in the tank), he was still worth the big signing based on what he has already delivered.  It wasn't his fault the rest of the team that sucked.

Votto strikes me as the kind of guy who will want nothing to do with baseball after he retires though.  Just kind of an introverted, thinking dude.  I think he's the kind of guy who when he is playing baseball he gives the game 100% until he feels like he is done, and at that point he'll want to do something else.  Also, he's kind of an introverted guy.  I don't think the idea of lots of press conferences and yelling at players what to do appeals to him.
Title: Re: Cincinnati Reds 2019
Post by: euro60 on May 03, 2019, 11:54:33 PM
so the Reds were up 8-0 against the Giants, and then lost the game 12-11 in extra innings, wow. I have no words other than they are in, comfortably, in last place in the NL Central... <sigh>
Title: Re: Cincinnati Reds 2019
Post by: Zafer Kaya on May 04, 2019, 12:07:26 AM
Yeah, that was a brutal loss.

Votto went 0-6 leading off, and Iglesias blew another one.  I suspect there will be a lot of kvetching over that.  And also why Bell pulled his starter after 5 innings and up 8 runs.  Or why Atephenson did not pitch.

But honestly, asking your bullpen to pitch a a game with a collective ERA under 9.00 is not a big ask.  And the pen has been good all year.  There was no reason to expect them to be bad, and certainly not ridiculously awful.

On any other night, they probably could have picked four position players to throw one inning each and still won.
Just one of those fluke-y things, but it still hurts.
Title: Re: Cincinnati Reds 2019
Post by: daytime drinking on May 05, 2019, 10:25:58 PM
and another one!  we went to the game today.  first game in like five years or something.  went to a bats game a couple weeks ago.  we missed every dinger

luis looked good outside that fart in the sixth.  showed good composure not getting fazed after coughing up the lead.  t'ain't looking good
Title: Re: Cincinnati Reds 2019
Post by: euro60 on May 05, 2019, 10:31:33 PM
Just amazing...

And like I said a while ago, the Reds are comfortably settling into last place of the NL Central <sigh>
Title: Re: Cincinnati Reds 2019
Post by: Zafer Kaya on May 06, 2019, 12:41:28 AM
The difference in talent between this years last place Reds and last year is immense, though.I honestly think the only difference between the Reds being 14-20 vs 17-17 is David Bell.  God, that guy sucks.

OTOH, is there really a huge difference between .500 and .450, or in the cellar by a game or two vs just out of the cellar by a game or two?

Baseball mediocrity is its own special hell, often more frustrating than just outright sucking.  The Reds on a good day when the hitting and pitching are on, are completely capable of destroying the Dodgers by 6 runs.  On a bad day, they can lose to the Marlins by 3 or 4 runs.  And on a typical day, they are just good enough to keep it competitive but not good enough to consistently win. 

Itís hard to come up with a way to even improve the team, because while no one is good, no one is really bad, either.

I was thinking about picking up Vanmeter for my fantasy team today, but then I was like... where does he play?  Winker, Puig, Senzel in OF.  Suarez at 3B.  Gennett returning to play 2B soon, but until then you have to find a way to play Dietrich and then even beyond that you probably need to see if Peraza can turn things around.  So one of the most putrid offenses in baseball to date legitimately does not have a place to play the hottest AAA hitter in the country.
Title: Re: Cincinnati Reds 2019
Post by: daytime drinking on May 06, 2019, 09:29:03 AM
they say it's a good problem to have
Title: Re: Cincinnati Reds 2019
Post by: Zafer Kaya on May 06, 2019, 12:30:12 PM
If you have a lousy team and you are trying to find space for a lousy prospect, then it's a lousy problem to have.

If you have a great team and you are trying to find space for a great prospect, it's a great problem to have. 

If you have a mediocre offense and are trying to find space for a mediocre prospect.  That's a mediocre problem to have.

The Reds have a mediocre problem.
Title: Re: Cincinnati Reds 2019
Post by: euro60 on May 15, 2019, 10:57:28 PM
Reds won in dramatic fashion against the Cubs tonight, 6-5. Sadly they are still way, way back in last place. In fact, the only team below .500 in the NL Central. Yea, that is how tough that division is.
Title: Re: Cincinnati Reds 2019
Post by: daytime drinking on May 17, 2019, 02:58:31 PM
that staff has carried them almost single handedly to twenty wins.  this fuckin offense better wake up.  watch out central.  of course what always happens is that we start losing 12-8 slugfests.  i don't think optimism is allowed in cincinnati sports 
Title: Re: Cincinnati Reds 2019
Post by: euro60 on May 29, 2019, 10:57:24 PM
Reds are playing better, BUT why does it seems that they win by bit margins, and then to lose by a small margin

All that aside, last night's game (with Dietrich's 3 home runs, and Sims, just called up from Louisvile, and DEALING) was fun to watch.

Reality check: Reds are still in last place in the NL Central <sigh>
Title: Re: Cincinnati Reds 2019
Post by: euro60 on June 11, 2019, 11:10:37 PM
Every time you think the Reds are going to crawl back to .500 and/or out of last place, they don't yet again. Witness tonight's loss at Cleveland, a game they by all means should've won. <sigh> I'm trying to be hopeful, and the Reds' stats are not that bad, but they just don't translate into wins...
Title: Re: Cincinnati Reds 2019
Post by: Zafer Kaya on June 12, 2019, 12:50:50 AM
Itís just an artificial line in your head.  Whatís the difference between .500 and .495?  Just a bit of luck.

The Reds should probably be .500, or even above.  Third place in the NL Central gets you nowhere though.  I actually prefer knowing the team has the talent to be .5000 but will get a better draft pick than they deserve and have the chance to improve next year.

Winker situation is getting a little worrisome though.  I thought he had turned it around a couple weeks ago, but now he is stinking it up again.  The power still seems to come only in short (albeit impressive) busts, and his OBP skills have gone from off-the-charts to merely pretty good.  Thatís not going to cut it for an OF.  Also, he remains helpless against lefties. 
Title: Re: Cincinnati Reds 2019
Post by: euro60 on June 16, 2019, 11:32:36 PM
The Reds are as of today 7 games under .500 and tied for last place, although the "least worst" team that is in last place. Does that give me any comfort? None.

Case in point: I'm slated to host our firm's corporate suite at GABP with clients on Sunday, June 30 (yes, only 2 weeks from today) As of now, I have NOT A SINGLE CLIENT that I have invited (and I have invited many) to attend the game. I mean, I'm getting desperate now. ZK, you wanna come up from Richmond and attend? I'm sure I could call you a "potential client" or some such, Yea, it's that bad. And mind you, it's the only suite game I am hosting this year (cutting down from 2 last year, and 3 or 4 in the years before).

I see ZERO interest among our clients to attend a Reds game, in a corporate suite no less, with free food and unlimited drinks. What does that tell you? <sigh>
Title: Re: Cincinnati Reds 2019
Post by: daytime drinking on June 17, 2019, 11:05:07 PM
i'll do it euro as long as you drive me home.  don't worry about me, i can get there alright

a two game win streak! 
Title: Re: Cincinnati Reds 2019
Post by: daytime drinking on June 18, 2019, 11:01:20 PM
three in a row! 

granted the 'stros are without multiple all stars and coulda won both.  it was a man's win.  garrett stumbles and iggy and lorenzen lights em out.  it's gotta be one of the best pens in the league.  a marvelous collection of failed starters.  and the bench has also got to be amongst the best as well.  so essentially the only reason the reds are just beyond middling is because they're forced to resort to those folk more often than, i imagine, they'd like

i think the offense will come around, just frustrating.  and it's not like i'm the only one who thought this team could be a dark horse.  i can't be
Title: Re: Cincinnati Reds 2019
Post by: Zafer Kaya on June 18, 2019, 11:53:09 PM
They do have an excellent pen.

Although not to burst your bubble but a last place team with an awesome bullpen is pretty good indication that your GM sucks. Even more true when the strength of the pen is itís depth rather than quality.  Itís the least important, most fungible part of a team and completely useless when your team is bad.  So your FO prioritized poorly and/or you wasted a lot of draft picks or potential trades on starting prospects who failed.

They could still deal from a position of strength and trade Iglesias.  They wonít, but they should.
Title: Re: Cincinnati Reds 2019
Post by: euro60 on June 19, 2019, 01:14:59 AM

They could still deal from a position of strength and trade Iglesias.  They wonít, but they should.
which Iglesias do you mean? If it is the bullpen guy, they won't get much for him... So I don't think they should. I think he'll come around