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Author Topic: Random Sports Musings  (Read 85786 times)

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Zafer Kaya

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Re: Random Sports Musings
« Reply #1845 on: April 06, 2018, 11:16:10 PM »

Nope.  None MLS "owner" actually owns their franchise.  They are a shareholder in MLS, and are assigned the rights to a franchise.  No one signs a contract with DC United, they sign a contract with MLS and are assigned a team.  They get to keep stadium revenue and a chunk of merch sales, but it's generally small potatoes.

The bulk of the money is in the TV rights.  That's shared among the teams, so FC Cincinnati being the most popular team in MLS (if it happens) means jack.

And the bulk of the TV rights is NOT in the MLS.  MLS and USSF share their TV and licensing rights in what's called SUM.  The bulk of the money is from USSF.  Basically, Gold Cup, Concacaaf, World Cup.  You know how women's soccer in the US is awesome but they all get paid hardly anything?  Because the USSF only cares about USMNT, because that's where the money is. Essentially MLS only exists to give the USMNT members a place to train and keep active so they can do their REAL job, which is making money for SUM via international competition.

The other source of money is the MLS Ponzi scheme.  It costs $150m to join MLS.  Those franchise fees get shared among existing owners.  So, that's why they are expanding.  It makes $$ for the owners at the top of the pyramid.  But the more they expand, the more watered down the product, and the more diluted the revenue because there are more existing owners. 

So Cincinnati is joining a league whose entire business model depends on the US Men's team which has nothing to do with FC Cincinnati at all.. and which just failed to make the World Cup.  The fate of the franchise is in the hands of the USSF, who are both corrupt and incompetent.  That's what you just got yourself into.

As for Cincinnati, it sounds like the school board didn't have to settle for nothing and in fact they weren't stupid and greedy, they were smart. They're apparently going to get what they asked for.  They were right to stick to their guns.  Good for them, and good for the city.  It's no longer a horrible deal.  I can still think of a hundred things better to spend tax money on than a silly pro franchise, but the region of the city that is most impacted and needed the money most is doing okay.  If rich people want to throw their tax money away on sports instead of infrastructure, that's their business.

euro60

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Re: Random Sports Musings
« Reply #1846 on: April 06, 2018, 11:24:22 PM »

If rich people want to throw their tax money away on sports instead of infrastructure, that's their business.
Exactly, and it's their money, so who are we to question how they spend their money?

Regardless, I'm just excited.

Last I heard is that Cincinnati City Council is voting on this next Wednesday, and Cincinnati Public Schools on Thursday. Barring a last minute disaster, this is a done deal. Woohoo!
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"A blind faith in authority is the worst enemy of truth" - Albert Einstein (1901)

The Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra is one of Cincinnati's underappreciated treasures

Zafer Kaya

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Re: Random Sports Musings
« Reply #1847 on: April 08, 2018, 12:36:26 AM »

Well, because you are a rich person too.  Maybe not as rich as Lindner but much richer than the people who live in areas stadiums tend to be built.  And it is your tax money.

If a rich person really wants me to get out of their face, they can buy their own stadium with $0 tax or public contribution.  Lindner has the money to do that. 

But yeah, it’s no longer a terrible deal like it was so it’s not something I would be outraged by any longer if I lived In Cincinnati.  I mean, if I had a vote, I’d vote No, but it’s not like a massive moral Justice or a surefire patch to city bankruptcy or anything.  At some point you can always be like “why is every last cent from everywhere not going towards helping the poor?!?”

euro60

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Re: Random Sports Musings
« Reply #1848 on: April 08, 2018, 12:47:28 AM »

If a rich person really wants me to get out of their face, they can buy their own stadium with $0 tax or public contribution.  Lindner has the money to do that. 

And that is what Lindner is doing.

The tax "breaks" that FCC is getting are no different from any private business investing in a city, any city.

So you should wail against any tax "breaks" any business is getting investing anywhere, including in Richmond. If you are against that, you are really calling for a new economic model for the US economy.

FCC is building its stadium with its own (Lindner's) money, period. This is miles, galaxies, away from the horrible Bengals and Reds stadium deals 15+ years ago.

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"A blind faith in authority is the worst enemy of truth" - Albert Einstein (1901)

The Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra is one of Cincinnati's underappreciated treasures

Zafer Kaya

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Re: Random Sports Musings
« Reply #1849 on: April 08, 2018, 11:08:15 AM »

Umm.. what?

Of course I complain when businesses anywhere get tax breaks, because it’s stupid.  That’s why it is is obvious to everyone this is a dumb idea.  I was very happy Richmond lost out on their bid to get Amazon, not that we had a chance anyway.

The “economic model” for the US, is, or used to be, a laissez-faire capitalist free market.  The fact that post-Reagan conservatives believe that the goal of fiscal policy is is to boost business is why the GOP has been fucked for decades. 

euro60

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Re: Random Sports Musings
« Reply #1850 on: April 08, 2018, 11:21:23 PM »

from the Enquirer:

The costs to Futbol Club Cincinnati under the proposal:

$25 million to Cincinnati Public Schools, $10 million of which will be paid upfront for the first 10 years. After that, the payment will be made on a year-to-year basis for the following 15 years. The payment is based on stadium valuation that after construction starts at $175 million and then declines in value.

$10 million to build a new Stargel Stadium for CPS

$1 million to the West End, which will be paid at a rate of $100,000 a year for 10 years. The money would go to help Little Senators Youth Sports, Q Kidz Dance, the creation of a West End Athletic Association and an entrepreneurship program run by Mortar.

$200 million to build a 21,000-seat stadium, including $54.4 million for inclusion and $16 million for construction jobs that will pay prevailing wage

$150 million franchise fee to Major League Soccer


Anyone who calls this a "bad" deal for the city is nothing short of delusional, sorry.
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"A blind faith in authority is the worst enemy of truth" - Albert Einstein (1901)

The Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra is one of Cincinnati's underappreciated treasures

euro60

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Re: Random Sports Musings
« Reply #1851 on: April 08, 2018, 11:25:06 PM »

Umm.. what?

Of course I complain when businesses anywhere get tax breaks, because it’s stupid.
ZK, do you live in the real world, honestly? Do you know how businesses decide to invest in certain places over others? Businesses make choices, and cities and states entice them to make those choices. How do you think that cities and states entice businesses? C'mon, man, really. You may not like it, and I get that, but that is how business gets done in the real world.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2018, 11:28:07 PM by euro60 »
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"A blind faith in authority is the worst enemy of truth" - Albert Einstein (1901)

The Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra is one of Cincinnati's underappreciated treasures

Zafer Kaya

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Re: Random Sports Musings
« Reply #1852 on: April 09, 2018, 09:45:12 AM »

We're just arguing in a circle.  I don't think businesses should get big tax breaks.  That's the whole reason I'm against paying for sports franchises.  It's crony capitalism at worst, and poor fiscal decision making and robbing from the poor to pay the rich at best. 

I'm against any city paying for businesses.  But particularly sports franchises are particularly bad deals, and they've been stupendously awful deals historically for Cincinnati.

Think about how twisted things have become where you are calling a school board "greedy" for not wanting to send tax payer money to a private entity. 

Butter

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Re: Random Sports Musings
« Reply #1853 on: April 10, 2018, 12:10:30 PM »

Pro sports teams are not worth the going modern rate.  Maybe 20 years ago they were.  Not now.  $150 million for an MLS team?  That is madness.  If anything, the team will see an attendance dip as part of MLS.  And the rights fees really aren't there yet.  Any tax money to be spent as part of this that is something other than an easement or maybe helping to build infrastructure around the stadium is a waste of money.
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c-lando

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Re: Random Sports Musings
« Reply #1854 on: April 10, 2018, 04:58:54 PM »

And I am haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaappy!
So very, very HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPPY!!!!!!

YAY, Liverpool!
Fuck off, Barca!
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euro60

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Re: Random Sports Musings
« Reply #1855 on: April 10, 2018, 10:45:57 PM »

how about that amazing comeback from Roma against Barca, wow, just wow.
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"A blind faith in authority is the worst enemy of truth" - Albert Einstein (1901)

The Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra is one of Cincinnati's underappreciated treasures

Cockney Rebel

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Re: Random Sports Musings
« Reply #1856 on: April 13, 2018, 08:26:28 PM »

FCC

The fans will not be there Euro.

N.O.T.

$10 or so a ticket is why Nippert is abuzz with fans. The stadium has all the feels to make things work.

$30/$40/$50 a ticket and people will stay away.
The quality of football played is not worth $30/$40/$50 a pop.
It’s only just worth $10.

The MLS is just another example of USA franchised sports bullshit. The real clue is in that $150m buy in price. Why? For what? For the chance to play teams miles across the country that next to NO FCC fans will attend because of the cost. There won’t even be a local derby against the Crew, because.... well because franchised sports gives zero fucks about fans.

The European (and elsewhere) football models have built embryonically over decades and decades, with leagues starting up, both locally and domestically. The promotion and relegation notion between leagues works to maintain interest and fascination at both ends of every league. It seems the US just wants to create a totally fake “top league” that is based on nothing else but money.

The stadium deal is still bad for the city of Cincinnati - and the West End, and the taxpayer - because the MLS business model is bad. Remember how the casino was going to be great for the city, create all these jobs, all this tax revenue etc etc? The FCC stadium deal will be worse and I predict that if it goes ahead all that expenditure and effort will be seen as a total waste of fucking money a decade down the line.

The MLS needs Cincinnati more than Cincinnati needs to be in the MLS. The fans here are rabid and genuine. But only at an affordable. If FCC want to find out how popular they really are, price a match at $40/$50 a seat, saying “this is the future of your team” - including a premium for existing season ticket holders - and see how big that attendance is. FCC would be FAR better off telling the MLS to go fuck themselves.

Rambling, sorry.....

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daytime drinking

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Re: Random Sports Musings
« Reply #1857 on: April 14, 2018, 01:14:47 PM »

couldn't linder just fund the brent spence bridge.  he'd see a lot more traffic.  or should i say, the linder bridge.  the linder express if it were submarined  he could even have his name in dayglo splattered all over the upper deck if he wanted.  i also want carl linder to fund the western hills viaduct.  not only fund mind you, but to resurrect her in her original form.  ie, fix the infrastructure instead of tearing it down even if means it's the more expensive option.  it's the greatest feat of architecture in the city.  it tugs at the heartstrings of my four year old self so freshly taken from the prairie.   

that doesn't mean i don't want mls as well.  just wish it was in newport and not just for financial considerations.  newport would adopt it immediately.  but now i'm not so sure.  the fc crowd fucking emerged like there was a gate holding them back.  god, clifton would turn into wrigleyville if they could keep it there.  i'm going to say that's a good thing.  people would treat it as a destination.  all the uc fans i know treat nippert like it's hallowed ground.  but they have to force themselves to admit it.  and i've never even seen this.  just from what i hear
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notoriouspbake

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Re: Random Sports Musings
« Reply #1858 on: April 17, 2018, 09:56:39 PM »

former red wings play by play guy ken daniels is on nbc now doing the caps/blue jackets series. he was the local fox sports detroit guy during the cup runs. he does a great job. nice to hear him again.
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notoriouspbake

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Re: Random Sports Musings
« Reply #1859 on: April 25, 2018, 09:31:10 PM »

game 7 leafs/bruins has been pretty entertaining so far.
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