Randomville

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
GigaBook.com
Advanced search  

News:

Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Down

Author Topic: Jack White forms another supergroup  (Read 8545 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Nate

  • Kevin Durant's baby mama.
  • City Elder
  • Posts: 3,826
  • Best Album Never Made.
    • Randomville
Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2009, 09:36:47 PM »

Wendell, you could say the same about the Stooges in terms of 'hits.'  What made them important was how influential they were, and while it's still way too early to tell what kind of impact they'll have in future generations, I think the idea of popularity as determined by the Billboard charts becomes more irrelevant the longer time goes on.

And re: Ryan Adams.  He's made some bad records over the last ten years.  White has made 1 (the last Raconteurs album).  I think Jack has eclipsed him.
Logged
Each day you have a choice - hilarity or insanity.

JohnnyRoyale

  • Town Drunk
  • City Elder
  • Posts: 5,295
Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2009, 10:37:09 PM »



And re:   White has made 1

Must. Fight. Urge. To. Disagree.        ;D

  If Clarkson had stiffed, would AI still be popular?

If there really was a God, that would have happened!

I hear what you're saying with top ten singles, but I doubt Radiohead has had a lot either. Should they get in? I agree with Nate that top ten singles is irrelevent anymore. You will never find a person in the music industry that thinks Spears is more deserving than the Stripes or White. Never. And we can only hope that will be the case come voting day.

On top of writing most of the songs, performing them, editing them (often with splice tape), arranging song orders and designing the artwork for his albums, acted in movies and worked with Beck and Electric Six, got married and had 2 kids, beat up some guy from the Von Bondies, White has also produced the following albums the past 10 years:

As producer
The White Stripes (1999) the White Stripes
De Stijl (2000) the White Stripes
Soledad Brothers (2000) Soledad Brothers
White Blood Cells (2001) the White Stripes
Do Rabbits Wonder? (2003) Whirlwind Heat[40]
Elephant (2003) the White Stripes
Van Lear Rose (2004) Loretta Lynn
Get Behind Me Satan (2005) the White Stripes
Red and Black EP (2005) the Muldoons
Sewed Soles (2005) The Greenhornes[40]
Broken Boy Soldiers (2006) the Raconteurs
Icky Thump (2007) the White Stripes
Consolers of the Lonely (2008) the Raconteurs
Horehound (2009) the Dead Weather

That's pretty god damn impressive.
Logged
"If you're going to get a hooker, at least  get one a little older. They have more tricks." ~Advice from Mad Dog, my grandmother

rva

  • Guest
Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2009, 11:11:05 PM »

But that's my point.  It's far too early to say the White Stripes are "obviously" going to the Hall of Fame or that Jack White is going to be the most influential artist of our generation.  

It took many years of successive generations listening to Stooges at some point in their lives for their influence to be felt.  And quite frankly, while I love The Stooges I think history has been massively re-written at least several times to create the idea that the Stooges were the forefathers of punk.  

But at least The Stooges could be classified as punk, and punk became huge, and they were an early icon in the punk scene.  What are White Stripes doing?  They're playing recycled Zeppelin riffs from recycled blues songs.  I really don't foresee a "garage blues" mania hitting the nation in the next few years.   Rock is kind of dead.  Unfortunately.

I don't have much confidence in this, but if I had to guess, I'd say in 10-15 years we'll be hearing even more hip-hop or at least hip-hop influence and more electronic shit.  And if we're hearing more hip-hop, doesn't Jay-Z have like three times the Grammy nods, three times the album sales, three times the output, and  at least equal respect within his genre and from critics?

It's not like I think Jack White sucks.  It's just the reality that the kind of stuff we like is on the fringes.  And yeah, there are always acts like Elvis Costello, VU, Talking Heads, Stooges, and a few others that leave a lasting impression on the critics and aspiring musicians so that their influence is much larger than their sales.... the odds are for any individual act are against it.  It's like a lottery ticket.  Someone's going to win it, but probably not you.  Even if you're TVOTR or White Stripes or Death Cab for Cutie.

I personally don't care which act eclipses which other one.  I like the White Blood Cells, but I like Execution of All Things even more.  Rilo Kiley is not going to the Hall of Fame.  They've had some crossover success, but even less than White Stripes.  Janet Weiss has to have at least as many albums out as Jack White between Quasi, Steven Malkmus, Sleater-Kinney and Bright Eyes.  And I mean, those are some indie heavyweights right there.  S-K and Pavement/Malkmus are right up there in that rarefied indie space with White Stripes.  But the truth is, no one gives a shit about Sleater-Kinney or Rilo Kiley and neither act is going to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.*

Who cares?  We like, that's all that matters.  






*Actually, S-K has an outside shot.  But only because there's a chance everyone will rewrite history and make it seem like they're the only all-woman band that ever rocked and that every female rocker after them was totally influenced by them or wouldn't be around without them.  Except we know it's not true.  We know for all their critical acclaim they didn't even make a dent in the popular subconscious and the great acts that were "influenced" by S-K, are really going to be influenced by what some critic WROTE about S-K because they weren't even around during the S-K heyday.  Because if they were, they'd already be big right now.
Logged

rva

  • Guest
Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2009, 11:29:10 PM »

I hear what you're saying with top ten singles, but I doubt Radiohead has had a lot either.

Radiohead is not a singles band, in a very unique way that absolutely does NOT apply to White Stripes.   They do however have three #1 albums and another #2.  That's just in the US.  Europe and the rest of the world is a whole different matter.  Radiohead sells out stadiums at $60 a seat.  They're one of the largest bands in the world right now, so they're playing on a whole 'nother level.

Quote
You will never find a person in the music industry that thinks Spears is more deserving than the Stripes or White. Never.

I think you're dead wrong.   In fact, I think you could probably find more people that think Lil' Wayne should be in than would argue for White Stripes.  Look at the roster of the major labels.  And you can't say no popular music sounds like White Stripes because they are so unique.  Rest assured the labels would be more than happy to sign a bunch of pale imitations and shove it down our throats if they thought it would sell.
Logged

Nate

  • Kevin Durant's baby mama.
  • City Elder
  • Posts: 3,826
  • Best Album Never Made.
    • Randomville
Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2009, 12:33:12 AM »

And now I go back the other way by saying why is the rock & roll fame any sort of barometer as to a band's 'success?'
Logged
Each day you have a choice - hilarity or insanity.

JohnnyRoyale

  • Town Drunk
  • City Elder
  • Posts: 5,295
Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2009, 01:36:02 AM »

But that's my point.  It's far too early to say the White Stripes are "obviously" going to the Hall of Fame or that Jack White is going to be the most influential artist of our generation.  

I PERSONALLY THINK THAT EVEN IF THEY STOPPED RECORDING NOW, THE ALBUMS THEY MADE WOULD GET THEM IN. ON EACH SONG, THEY TRY TO RE-INVENT THEMSELVES. AC/DC, JACK JOHNSON, NOT SO MUCH.

AS FOR THE MOST INFLUENTIAL, I SEE NO ONE ELSE WHO HAS EVEN COME CLOSE TO ACCOMPLISHING WHAT HE'S DONE. UNLESS HE DIES YOUNG, OR QUITS (AND I REALLY DOUBT THAT) THEN HE'S ON PACE FOR MAKING A TOTAL OF 40+ ALBUMS OVER THE NEXT 30 YEARS. ONE OTHER POINT I FORGOT TO MENTION IS HE FORMED HIS OWN LABEL AND DESIGNED THE BUILDING FROM THE GROUND UP.


But at least The Stooges could be classified as punk, and punk became huge, and they were an early icon in the punk scene.  What are White Stripes doing?  They're playing recycled Zeppelin riffs from recycled blues songs.  I really don't foresee a "garage blues" mania hitting the nation in the next few years.   Rock is kind of dead.  Unfortunately.

STEVIE RAY PLAYED RECYCLED JIMI SONGS AND PUT A RECYCLED TEXAS BLUES SOUND INTO THEM. BUT NOT A TON OF PEOPLE HAVE COPIED HIS STYLE. BUT HE WAS ONE OF THE BEST MUSICIANS OF THE 80s. CAN'T ARGUE MUCH ON THE ROCK IS KINDA DEAD THING THOUGH...

Who cares?  We like, that's all that matters.  

AGREED

Logged
"If you're going to get a hooker, at least  get one a little older. They have more tricks." ~Advice from Mad Dog, my grandmother

JohnnyRoyale

  • Town Drunk
  • City Elder
  • Posts: 5,295
Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2009, 01:59:47 AM »

Radiohead is not a singles band, in a very unique way that absolutely does NOT apply to White Stripes.   They do however have three #1 albums and another #2.  That's just in the US.  Europe and the rest of the world is a whole different matter.  Radiohead sells out stadiums at $60 a seat.  They're one of the largest bands in the world right now, so they're playing on a whole 'nother level.

I don't think the Stripes are a singles band either. I think if they really wanted to, they'd sign to Capitol records and have every song bludgeoned and put on every other radio station in the country. Or allow them to be sold as ringtones. But they don't want that and they don't do it. And they sell out all their shows as well, yet I'll be if they toured as infrequently as Radiohead, they could easily get $60 or more per seat. They do play festivals, but I really doubt we'll ever see them play stadiums due to the nature of their sound/size. It just doesn't fit.

I think you're dead wrong.   In fact, I think you could probably find more people that think Lil' Wayne should be in than would argue for White Stripes.  Look at the roster of the major labels.  And you can't say no popular music sounds like White Stripes because they are so unique.  Rest assured the labels would be more than happy to sign a bunch of pale imitations and shove it down our throats if they thought it would sell.

No way. There CAN'T be anyone who can say that Spears is a better artist, which includes composing, creating, performing, delivering, all in one. If they say that, then they are simply saying it just because they don't like the White Stripes and they are being spiteful. Rock Hall, industry rep, radio dj, tickemaster ceo, bum on the street. No one. She does not sing well, or write her own material, or play any instruments. She can dance. Fuck that.

As for Lil Wayne, I honestly don't know much about him and wouldn't know a song of his if it was playing. Hip Hop/Rap is just not my thing. And yes, I do give that unique factor to them. I've listened to their songs a lot, and there are so many different instruments, chord changes, odd lyric insterts and just flat out catchy songs. ANYONE could have created the chords to Seven Nation Army, but no one else did. I can't tell you how many musicians I've talked to over the years who say "yeah, it's basic and easy and I always think 'how come i didn't think of that' but it's actually more carefully structured than people give them credit for"

Who knows what the Rock Hall will do, and I think we can all agree that plenty of artists will/won't get in/out that deserve it. And we really don't know all of their criteria. But I really think that band is quietly doing things others are not.

And again, more Jack White is. And I will stand tall on that claim of most influential of our generation. I will revisit this thread some 30-40 years from now and see that  I wrote on March 18th that when we look back, he's going to be labeled the most important musician of our generation.

He's doing more things than people really pay attention to, and I think that will all sink in over time. I'm sure a lot of people thought Jimi was amazing when he was alive, but I think (with the help of many live recordings) more people looked back after he was gone and really grasped what he did. Same with Tupac.

There is a reason Jack White was on the cover of Rolling Stone with Mick Jagger and Keith Richards about them "passing the torch" to him. It's because he's the new future, hardest worker, most talented and most creative if you added those all up to one. Not saying he's the most talented artist out there, but if you took all 4 of these and looked for someone else, I don't think there is another.

They didn't pick Lady Gaga, Nickelback, Britney Spears, Kelly Clarkson, Dave Matthews, John Mayer, Lil' Wayne, Bob Pollard, Ryan Adams, Justin Timberlake, Linkin Park, Jonny Lang, Derek Trucks, Coldplay, the Black Keys, or anyone else to be on that cover to pass the torch to.

They chose Jack White.

We're witnessing something special, and it's probably still in infancy. Watch it live.
Logged
"If you're going to get a hooker, at least  get one a little older. They have more tricks." ~Advice from Mad Dog, my grandmother

frizgolf

  • City Elder
  • Posts: 1,917
Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
« Reply #22 on: March 20, 2009, 07:42:25 AM »

Add me to the list of folks who think Jack White has a good chance of getting in the Rock Hall.
Since rock music descends from blues, and White's going back to basics, I think he'll be looked back upon as having redirected rock music somewhat to its roots. Simple chords, blues riffs, catchy tunes. If rock dies, it won't be White's fault.
Logged
What we learn after we know it all is what counts.

Dan

  • Tetris Master
  • City Elder
  • Posts: 13,521
Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
« Reply #23 on: March 20, 2009, 10:16:04 AM »

UNLESS HE DIES YOUNG, OR QUITS (AND I REALLY DOUBT THAT) THEN HE'S ON PACE FOR MAKING A TOTAL OF 40+ ALBUMS OVER THE NEXT 30 YEARS.
I know you're speculating, but thinking that any musician will keep up a 'pace' is absurd. Especially for 30 years... the sporting world will tell you time and again that you can never plan that kind of longevity.
Logged

Juliana

  • City Elder
  • Posts: 4,758
Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
« Reply #24 on: March 20, 2009, 01:28:57 PM »

I know you're speculating, but thinking that any musician will keep up a 'pace' is absurd. Especially for 30 years... the sporting world will tell you time and again that you can never plan that kind of longevity.

Except for Bob Pollard and his 100 songs a day
Logged
We all agree that genocide, avalanches, and Family Circus are not funny
-Ed Helms

rva

  • Guest
Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2009, 02:10:58 PM »

Add me to the list of folks who think Jack White has a good chance of getting in the Rock Hall.
Since rock music descends from blues, and White's going back to basics, I think he'll be looked back upon as having redirected rock music somewhat to its roots. Simple chords, blues riffs, catchy tunes. If rock dies, it won't be White's fault.

And that's why he's on the cover of the Rolling Stone with the Stones.  Not necessarily because he's a star of greater magnitude or talent than any or those other acts, but because he's pulling from the same blues tradition as the Stones did.  

And I would agree as well that if there's a rock revival, that will punch his ticket into the Hall of Fame and being a great influence and all that.  What he has going for him is that he's at the forefront (or is at least the posterboy) for a certain movement/sound with some momentum behind it.  But it's far from assured that rock isn't going to die.  

And I'm not sure Jack White wants to be the savior of rock, either.  I think he may just go into a more folk direction, or just go off into his own weird White Stripes land of odd, novelty-ish, different American "roots" type sounds from all eras.  Bit of folk, bit of cabaret, bit of Led Zep, bit of straight blues and mash it all up.

As a pure guitar player, I think Jack White tends to be massively underrated by guitar players and massively overrated by non-guitar players.  The stuff on the records is ridiculously easy to play, but that doesn't mean that's ALL he can play (this is so NOT true with Meg White).  

You see him live, he opens it up a lot more and can play those Page-esque blues riffs.  Still though, he's a "feel" guy.  And for too many guitarists unless you are faster or more complicated than every other guitar player, you don't count.

For non-guitar players on the other hand, they maybe overly react to "feel."  People are like, well how does he get that BIG sound in this one track?  Answer:  open tuning.  How does he do that weirdo sound where it goes cuts on and off?  Answer:  He's flips the knob on his guitar back and forth real fast to switch pickups on and off.  How does he get that all over the place sound?  Answer:  Digitech Whammy.

They're all sort of standard tricks that most guitar players know.  It's all pentatonic blues riffs which are no secret.  I will say he has a way with that Digitech Whammy pedal.  It's a unique part of his technique.

But anyway, White's strength is that he uses certain tricks and not others, and he uses those tricks at just the right time.  Which is why he's a "feel" player.  It makes it hard to peg his influence or his greatness.  

SRV was a tremendously gifted dude physically.  His hands are huge, and they're also incredibly strong, and he can move his fingers way fast.  I am physically incapable of playing many SRV licks.  Just like I could practice playing football my whole life and lift weights and all that, but I'd never be able to play linebacker in the NFL.

And Hendrix... let's just say that White is not even remotely on the same playing field as Hendrix when it comes to innovating things or putting his own stamp on the way guitar is viewed.  Probably no one is.

So with Hendrix and SRV, both of them at least "wow'ed" a lot of guitar players and had a huge influence within the guitar community or whatever.  In terms of new techniques and sounds if nothing else.  Even if they didn't (particularly in SRV's case) have a larger cultural impact beyond guitar enthusiasts.

Jack White's potential "influence rating" or whatever is all going to be in his cultural impact, and it's just way too early to tell.
Logged

frizgolf

  • City Elder
  • Posts: 1,917
Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2009, 02:31:34 PM »

Yeah, if he keeps experimenting, he'll be okay, I think. If he slips into ego or drugs, it could be all over.
Time will tell.
Logged
What we learn after we know it all is what counts.

rva

  • Guest
Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2009, 02:50:09 PM »

And now I go back the other way by saying why is the rock & roll fame any sort of barometer as to a band's 'success?'

No.  And I don't even think a band's 'success' matters at all.  

If you like Animal Collective, you like Animal Collective and they are just as good if they're musical geniuses who planned that album or a bunch of idiots who just lucked into that sound.  Or if 500 people listen to them or 5,000,000.  Or if they are massively influential or no one cares.  Or if anyone can do it, or if its just Animal Collective who can do that.

That was my beef with the Hall of Fame article, and about the music writing on the site in general.  You can write about your favorite bands and songs and music that you like.  Or you can try to handle things from a pop culture kind of analytical perspective.  But you can't confuse the two.

Just because JR likes White Stripes, doesn't mean they are obviously going to the Hall of Fame, or that Jack White is going to be a huge influence on the future of music.  Or that everyone in the music business thinks Jack White is better than Britney Spears, or that anyone cares that Jack White writes really basic songs and Britney Spears doesn't write songs at all.

"Indie" music is but one small subset of the overall music scene.  Hip-hop is another, and I doubt that most hip-hop music business people or fans are going to agree that pretty much rap sucks with a few exceptions and Jay-Z is not as talented as Jack White.

For that matter, Lady Gaga has her own legit "cred."  Only it's New York glam-disco-club scene cred.  I'm sure they have as little use for JR's taste in stuff as he does theirs.  And like, I'm totally on JR's side.  I love the White Stripes.  Whereas if the chick next door to me plays "Poker Face" just ONE MORE FUCKING TIME, I'm gonna smash her iPod.

Nonetheless, it's still a sign that there are people out there who lovelovelovelovelove Lady Gaga, and could give a rat's ass about White Stripes.

That's why I always advocated just writing about stuff we like from a subjective viewpoint instead of trying to do more objective pieces and draw any conclusion other than "Gee, I like this."  Because if you try to do the big picture stuff, then you have to go out and listen to country and hip-hop and dance music and none of us want to do that.
Logged

JohnnyRoyale

  • Town Drunk
  • City Elder
  • Posts: 5,295
Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
« Reply #28 on: March 21, 2009, 01:58:48 PM »

I know you're speculating, but thinking that any musician will keep up a 'pace' is absurd. Especially for 30 years... the sporting world will tell you time and again that you can never plan that kind of longevity.

By all means. And no, I don't expect him to keep up with that. Though he might. I forgot yet another album he did when he played guitar for The Go.
Logged
"If you're going to get a hooker, at least  get one a little older. They have more tricks." ~Advice from Mad Dog, my grandmother

JohnnyRoyale

  • Town Drunk
  • City Elder
  • Posts: 5,295
Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
« Reply #29 on: March 21, 2009, 02:12:16 PM »

And that's why he's on the cover of the Rolling Stone with the Stones.  Not necessarily because he's a star of greater magnitude or talent than any or those other acts, but because he's pulling from the same blues tradition as the Stones did.  

And I would agree as well that if there's a rock revival, that will punch his ticket into the Hall of Fame and being a great influence and all that.  What he has going for him is that he's at the forefront (or is at least the posterboy) for a certain movement/sound with some momentum behind it.  But it's far from assured that rock isn't going to die.  

And I'm not sure Jack White wants to be the savior of rock, either.  I think he may just go into a more folk direction, or just go off into his own weird White Stripes land of odd, novelty-ish, different American "roots" type sounds from all eras.  Bit of folk, bit of cabaret, bit of Led Zep, bit of straight blues and mash it all up.

As a pure guitar player, I think Jack White tends to be massively underrated by guitar players and massively overrated by non-guitar players.  The stuff on the records is ridiculously easy to play, but that doesn't mean that's ALL he can play (this is so NOT true with Meg White).  

You see him live, he opens it up a lot more and can play those Page-esque blues riffs.  Still though, he's a "feel" guy.  And for too many guitarists unless you are faster or more complicated than every other guitar player, you don't count.

For non-guitar players on the other hand, they maybe overly react to "feel."  People are like, well how does he get that BIG sound in this one track?  Answer:  open tuning.  How does he do that weirdo sound where it goes cuts on and off?  Answer:  He's flips the knob on his guitar back and forth real fast to switch pickups on and off.  How does he get that all over the place sound?  Answer:  Digitech Whammy.

They're all sort of standard tricks that most guitar players know.  It's all pentatonic blues riffs which are no secret.  I will say he has a way with that Digitech Whammy pedal.  It's a unique part of his technique.

But anyway, White's strength is that he uses certain tricks and not others, and he uses those tricks at just the right time.  Which is why he's a "feel" player.  It makes it hard to peg his influence or his greatness.  

SRV was a tremendously gifted dude physically.  His hands are huge, and they're also incredibly strong, and he can move his fingers way fast.  I am physically incapable of playing many SRV licks.  Just like I could practice playing football my whole life and lift weights and all that, but I'd never be able to play linebacker in the NFL.

And Hendrix... let's just say that White is not even remotely on the same playing field as Hendrix when it comes to innovating things or putting his own stamp on the way guitar is viewed.  Probably no one is.

So with Hendrix and SRV, both of them at least "wow'ed" a lot of guitar players and had a huge influence within the guitar community or whatever.  In terms of new techniques and sounds if nothing else.  Even if they didn't (particularly in SRV's case) have a larger cultural impact beyond guitar enthusiasts.

Jack White's potential "influence rating" or whatever is all going to be in his cultural impact, and it's just way too early to tell.

Pretty much agree with all of this and the guitar explainations were spot on. Another point to that is that he writes really catchy guitar licks. In the goofy Rolling Stone Best Guitarist list a couple of years ago, I was pretty pissed to see Kurt Cobain ranked so high (top 10 or close to it). I love Nirvana's music, but the guy was not nearly as good of a technical guitar player as damn near anyone on that list. Hell, even Brad Nowell from Sublime blows him out of the water. However, Cobain wrote very catchy chords, and you usually only need a note or two and you know it's a Nirvana song. I think White does a lot of the same.

But again, I'm not specualting so much on White's "influence rating" but calling him the most important musician of this era. I'm not sold that there are a million kids in garages trying to be Jack White on guitar right now, but I think some of his explorations, guitar playing, song writing, and DIY ethics are probably being mimicked, yes. I know Dr. Dre, and Jay Z, Bob Pollard, Ryan Adams, and producers like Rick Rubin and William. I know they are doing a lot and it's pretty respectable. But I just don't see anyone out there now or in the past 10 years that is doing as much and as unique as White.
Logged
"If you're going to get a hooker, at least  get one a little older. They have more tricks." ~Advice from Mad Dog, my grandmother
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Up