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Author Topic: Jack White forms another supergroup  (Read 8600 times)

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JohnnyRoyale

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Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
« Reply #30 on: March 21, 2009, 02:48:44 PM »

All of this Rock Hall talk is starting to drive me insane!     ;D   And I'm really only trying to shout my "most important" statement over the Rock Hall stuff. Though I do think I have legit Rock Hall points....

Look, I listen to a lot of music, though not as much as I would like and not as diverse as I should. And yes, I am biased because I love the White Stripes, but in my most honest and sincere tongue, I feel like the music they have already done is enough to get them in the Rock Hall. And if they produce any more, it's just extra votes. The guy has a better voice than he gets credit for, is an amazing song writer in that he has catchy hooks and inserts breaks where they almost don't belong until you listen again. His guitar work: see rva's comments above. They are pretty damn popular and (sadly) are even popping up on butt rock stations now.

I love Cat Power and her voice. I can't get enough of it, and in my opinion, she's a WAY better singer than Patti Smith ever was. But I'm well aware that not only is Patti Smith a more deserving pick, I also get it that Cat Power will never be inducted into that hall. For one, because of her diversity, and secondly, she's probably considered as a dime-a-dozen female vocalist. And that's fine. It doesn't change how I feel about her.

I have never heard a song by the Pretenders that I like, and I honestly would love to see the Soledad Brothers placed into the Hall of Fame as I'm still blown away to this day by what they did. But that's just what I like, and I know I'm kinda dreaming.

I'm not giving that treatment here with the White Stripes. If the things they have done are not enough to get in ( and ALREADY), then I feel sorry for future musicians just starting out because it's going to be about impossible to ever do anything to get in. In fact, I guess the Rock Hall should close the doors in 20 years. And I will also have zero faith in that Hall if this were to happen. You can go down the list of inductees already, and it's a pretty good list. But I've listened to the Stripes hundreds of times, I know their songs and I've focused very carefully. It's a very unique thing happening. That's what I know.



Just because JR likes White Stripes, doesn't mean they are obviously going to the Hall of Fame, or that Jack White is going to be a huge influence on the future of music.  Or that everyone in the music business thinks Jack White is better than Britney Spears, or that anyone cares that Jack White writes really basic songs and Britney Spears doesn't write songs at all.

"Indie" music is but one small subset of the overall music scene.  Hip-hop is another, and I doubt that most hip-hop music business people or fans are going to agree that pretty much rap sucks with a few exceptions and Jay-Z is not as talented as Jack White.



That's not what I'm saying at all. Countless times over the years when I've looked at those Rock Hall lists, I've wondered "Who the hell is that?" because I haven't heard of them. But when I dig a little deeper and read what is printed, it usually makes sense. I'm sure I could be sold pretty easily on how great Lil' Wayne is or on what Jay-Z is doing (though I'm more aware of his accomplishments) but I'm simply not interested in them. The same will probably be for hip hop business folks when they hear the White Stripes are going in. But if they take the time and do a little research, they should respect the nod.

Me personally, I'd be a terrible judge for that event because I'm not diverse enough. That's why they have strict rules, qualifications and a better panel than my judgement. OUR rock hall thing was just for fun. Well, 80% fun, as I put a lot of thought into it.

I only know what I know, and I know that I can make only one nomination right now, and that's the White Stripes. Well, and Radiohead, but that's a whole other ball of wax. I like a LOT of bands, but none of them have done anything worthy enough (yet) to get that cred.

Who knows what Lady Gaga will end up doing and it's way too early for me to judge her on that, though I fucking hate her music.  I will say I'd be surprised if she made it over the Stripes. But Britney, no fucking way. If Debbie Gibson and Tiffany aren't getting in, then neither will Brit. NO respectable person in the business could honestly say she's a better talent than White. Maybe the dj's on stations she plays on, or her fan clubs, or parents, yes.

On another popularity note, do you really think Pearl Jam isn't worthy for at least a nomination some day? They did very un-popular things like refusing to tour (because of Ticketmaster), refusing to make videos and stopped releasing singles. The band even admitted that these things hurt their career. But they are/were pretty damn influential, right?
To the general public, were the Ramones really that popular? Most of my friends don't like them, myself included.



That's why I always advocated just writing about stuff we like from a subjective viewpoint instead of trying to do more objective pieces and draw any conclusion other than "Gee, I like this."  Because if you try to do the big picture stuff, then you have to go out and listen to country and hip-hop and dance music and none of us want to do that.

Well put, and we simply don't have the resources to be more than that....now. I'd like to get to that point some day, but for now we would be "faking" it to do that. We'll see what the future brings.
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Nate

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Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
« Reply #31 on: March 21, 2009, 05:55:41 PM »

Pearl Jam has also made the Industry a whole lot of money, which seems to be the top overall qualification for entry.
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rva

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Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
« Reply #32 on: March 21, 2009, 08:09:41 PM »

I don't think there's any doubt Pearl Jam's going in just as soon as their 25 years are up. 

Were they one of the best bands of their generation?  There's Nirvana and Radiohead, but there's no doubt Pearl Jam would be in the top five on most anyone's list.

Did they sell a ton of records?  Yes.

Did they receive critical acclaim to go along with their massive sales?  Yes.

Did they have longevity as well as a great "peak?"  Yes.

Do they have respect of their peers and the music industry?  Yes.
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Kwyjibo

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Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
« Reply #33 on: March 21, 2009, 11:19:59 PM »

Are they superior in every way to The White Stripes?  Yes.
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Bronzetree

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Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
« Reply #34 on: March 22, 2009, 02:47:52 AM »

Pearl Jam is a shoe-in. Lady Gaga isn't and won't be on the radar, so it's a moot point. For me, the only good thing about her - and this is true of 99% of the stuff I spin for people - is that her stuff is danceable and people dig it. Otherwise, it's recyclable. She's hot right now, but won't be a couple years from now. Debbie Gibson and Tiffany sold a lot of records, but weren't of any significance culturally or on music in general. Britney, I dunno. I kinda doubt she'll make the Hall, but it won't surprise me if she does. White Stripes? Way too early to tell. Maybe?
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JohnnyRoyale

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Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
« Reply #35 on: March 22, 2009, 04:01:31 AM »

Are they superior in every way to The White Stripes?  Yes.

But this is strictly just YOUR opinion. MY opinion is that Pearl Jam has made 3 bad albums. MY opinion is that the White Stripes have made one that was okay (debut), but the rest have all been good.

Britney, I dunno. I kinda doubt she'll make the Hall, but it won't surprise me if she does. White Stripes? Way too early to tell. Maybe?

Won't surprise you?? I'll have a god-damn aneurysm! What positive qualities has she put forward that would even remotely qualify her??? Can she sing well? No. Does she writer her own music? No. Is she a role-model to young girls? FUCK no! Can she dance? Yes.

Christina Aguilera is 100x more worthy.

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frizgolf

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Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
« Reply #36 on: March 22, 2009, 09:58:29 AM »

Are they superior in every way to The White Stripes?  Yes.
If you'd have asked me five years ago, I'd have agreed with you. Now that the stripped-down, back-to-garage sound has nearly reached the critical mass 90s grunge once enjoyed, I think there's no question about White's influence, like him or not.
What once seemed to be a fad now looks to be a simple return to roots.
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rva

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Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
« Reply #37 on: March 22, 2009, 02:23:39 PM »

Who's making stripped-down, fuzzed out blues jams other than White Stripes?  I mean, even at the indie level?
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Nate

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Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
« Reply #38 on: March 22, 2009, 03:52:34 PM »

Britney's influence is more cultural than musical.  How many blonde innocent/demure but secretly slutty singers have there been in the last decade?  That's all because of Britney.  It really doesn't matter what she does musically, because she's transcended those boundaries and become an icon in the culture.  She's like Madonna, if Madonna didn't have the work ethic and a calculating intelligence.  It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if Brit is incapable of dressing herself in the morning.  The image is what makes her who she is, which is why most musicgeeks use her as the example of what's wrong with music today.  But they're missing the point when they do that.

And yes, for the record, Christina Aguilera will make it in the HoF, also.  She actually can sing, and seems to be taking the Madonna path in terms of remaking her image evry few years. 

As far as other rock bands we'll see inducted in the next ten years, my money's on...

Bon Jovi
Def Leppard
RHCP
Nirvana
Pearl Jam
Beck
Radiohead
Green Day

I mean, those are obvious choices, based on sales, cultural impact, and grammy nominations.  That's the only criteria that should be used, IMO, because influence in music seems to be a distant 4th.
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Dan

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Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
« Reply #39 on: March 22, 2009, 09:50:26 PM »

Who's making stripped-down, fuzzed out blues jams other than White Stripes?  I mean, even at the indie level?
Dan Auerbach / Black Keys?
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frizgolf

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Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
« Reply #40 on: March 23, 2009, 07:33:39 AM »

The Strokes, The Hives, The Ettes... (just as Dan Auerbach comes on woxy as I type)
Yeah, not huge heavy hitters, but I'm thinking White's influence will be felt more along the lines of a return to rock's roots ala blues riffs. Rock was reviled early on for its simplicity and primal instincts. Prudes were afraid their kids would dance in the streets naked or something. I kinda like the stripped down White Stripes sound, but at its most basic, it's all about the blues base. I think then I could throw in Pearlene, Black Mountain, Heartless Bastards, and Buffalo Killers just off the top of my head.
Let's get back to primal beats and dancing in the streets as opposed to staring at our shoes being depressed.
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Juliana

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Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
« Reply #41 on: March 23, 2009, 08:28:52 AM »

Didn't the Strokes and the Hives really come out about the same time as the White Stripes though?
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rva

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Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
« Reply #42 on: March 23, 2009, 09:26:09 AM »

Yeah, all three of those bands hit it big simultaneously.  I'd also say The Strokes and The Hives are rooted in that 1980 punk/new wave/pop sound (eg. Cars, Romantics, Knack) which is a bit different than the White Stripes.  And The Strokes seem like they're cooked, which is a shame.  I'd agree the Black Keys are definitely mining the same stuff as Jack White, thugh.

But yeah, the real problem here is even if we include all those bands, it's not exactly the same as Soundgarden, Alice in Chains, Pearl Jam, Nirvana, Stone Temple Pilots, Smashing Pumpkins etc.
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bluebastard

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Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
« Reply #43 on: April 25, 2009, 12:55:17 AM »

I think Dead Weather is the best Jack White product in quite sometime but I also chalk that up to Alison Mosshart of The Kills being a part of the group--The Kills are great. But I think The Raconteurs are pretty boring and I'd much rather Brendan Benson try to make another Lapalco. I do, however, like the live-to-video cuts "Level" and "Old Enough".

As for the argument this has turned into, The White Stripes may not be doing something that is wholly original but Jack does it his own way with his own style and that accounts for a lot in the industry. And he's proven that he is more than just a one trick pony with side projects and producing credits that don't lean on the 'White Stripes' prototype. C'mon, Van Lear Rose is the finest Loretta Lynn album since she broke into country. We could get sidetracked on how that's more to do with the modern Nashville model and how it churns out pop country prefabness with a shit-eating grin but the point is Jack White clearly has an ear for the older country sound that made Lynn so popular across a wide swatch of demographics in her heyday.

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Dan

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Re: Jack White forms another supergroup
« Reply #44 on: April 26, 2009, 10:27:08 AM »

I think Dead Weather is the best Jack White product in quite sometime but I also chalk that up to Alison Mosshart of The Kills being a part of the group--The Kills are great. But I think The Raconteurs are pretty boring and I'd much rather Brendan Benson try to make another Lapalco. I do, however, like the live-to-video cuts "Level" and "Old Enough".

As for the argument this has turned into, The White Stripes may not be doing something that is wholly original but Jack does it his own way with his own style and that accounts for a lot in the industry. And he's proven that he is more than just a one trick pony with side projects and producing credits that don't lean on the 'White Stripes' prototype. C'mon, Van Lear Rose is the finest Loretta Lynn album since she broke into country. We could get sidetracked on how that's more to do with the modern Nashville model and how it churns out pop country prefabness with a shit-eating grin but the point is Jack White clearly has an ear for the older country sound that made Lynn so popular across a wide swatch of demographics in her heyday.



This might have been the most interesting post I've read in a while. Thanks, yo!
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