Randomville

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
GigaBook.com
Advanced search  

News:

Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: WTF, Windows 8?  (Read 2461 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Kwyjibo

  • Bringing Grumpy Back
  • City Elder
  • Posts: 10,608
WTF, Windows 8?
« on: January 03, 2013, 01:21:48 PM »

So we bought a new laptop around Thanksgiving.  I honestly haven't futzed with it much, but from what little I have I'm frustrated as hell with Windows 8.  I'm not a software engineer but in my job I do have to evaluate the usability of our eCommerce applications... rule one with me is that if something requires more than a one sentence explanation then it's probably too complicated.  What was the thinking around this?  What were they trying to accomplish?  Why did they neuter the desktop?  The whole thing stinks of hubris... smug know it all assholes inventing the next big thing without any regard to how people actually use Windows.  There's shit popping up everywhere.  I don't have a clue what to do with these stupid tiles... other than bypass them entirely and go to the desktop.  Fixing what wasn't broken proves once again to be a stupid strategy.

Anybody else have any opinion... or have any suggestions on how I go about filling myself in on what I'm missing?
Logged
Baby, check this out, I've got something to say.  Man, it's so loud in here.

Zafer Kaya

  • City Elder
  • Posts: 3,723
Re: WTF, Windows 8?
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2013, 01:43:56 PM »

For me there's some high techy applications that I run and Windows 8 does in fact run them much faster than Windows 7 so it is worth the trade off.  But yeah, I'd tell most people not to switch.

On the plus side, I will say that MS sort of didn't have a choice.  The look and whateveryoucallit "overlay" of Metro could have been done better.  But touchscreens/non-keyboard interfacing is almost certainly the direction things are going, and they beefed up some other stuff so the whole Windows desktop really kind of doesn't make sense.

Problem is that all legacy programs are already set to work on desktop, so they're kind of stuck.  Like right now, I think most users want to do everything in desktop and are annoyed by having to go through Metro all the time.  But in a year or so, if people start to come out with affordable ultras/tablets and Windows 8 specific apps start rolling out and it could very well be that people are annoyed that they can't stay in Metro and have to go back to the desktop when they run legacy apps.

Once you get used to it, it does get better.  The thing to realize is that you can launch or get to pretty much any running program in either desktop or Metro.  What seems to be a huge divide is really more a matter of old programs not knowing about Metro and installing desktop shortcuts but not Metro tiles.  Or Metro not knowing exactly what to do with an old .exe file.  Or new programs installing Metro tiles but not desktop shortcuts.   But Metro is just like desktop, just with extra little tiles that give you twitter or facebook or internet shizz.  Takes a little extra time when installing a new program or when you first get Windows going to set up Metro and your desktop, but once you get through that it's not so bad.

It's still pretty annoying when you launch a program in desktop and when you exit you are in Metro or vice versa, though.  
« Last Edit: January 03, 2013, 01:46:24 PM by Zafer Kaya »
Logged

Kwyjibo

  • Bringing Grumpy Back
  • City Elder
  • Posts: 10,608
Re: WTF, Windows 8?
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2013, 01:55:24 PM »

Yeah, I see how it makes sense from a touch screen point of view but it doesn't bridge the gap well.  They should have thought through how to make Metro work on a PC without needing the desktop... if it weren't for the confusion of trying to figure out how to get from one to the other and how to find everything when some things are on one and not the other it would be an entirely different conversation.  But without any buy in for desktop users that Metro does anything for them they've invited a lot of criticism by creating this wishy-washy half and half solution.

I mean, didn't they have the same complaints when they made the dos prompt obsolete?  Everybody eventually came around but that was done so much better... it was a lock stock and barrel switch you didn't have this half assed version of the old way causing confusion.  If you absolutely needed to run a program at a dos prompt you could, but it wasn't this confusing dual implementation that they're going for with this.
Logged
Baby, check this out, I've got something to say.  Man, it's so loud in here.

Zafer Kaya

  • City Elder
  • Posts: 3,723
Re: WTF, Windows 8?
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2013, 03:16:47 PM »

But IF you were to buy a new-fangled touch screen then the desktop/Metro thing isn't as big a deal.  

Sure you'd have to juggle between two desktops but it would be a simple matter of an extra touch or a swipe.  Which isn't a big deal.  Especially when you consider how much time you would potentially save in Metro just being able to touch/gesture stuff instead of mousing.  So in that sense, they erred on the right side by cheating towards Metro.

I think the thing is, they jumped the gun on Windows 8 big-time.  Because most Metro features are not particularly useful for businesses.  On PC machines, you are not using twitter or chats or needing sports score or weather updates and in fact they probably want to discourage the loss of productivity and use of bandwidth.  You are using one app at a time, it's almost certainly a simple one, and one that works in Windows which all your users understand.

Then there's the fact that Windows 8 wants you to have an MS account and how business will handle that and the potential security issues and buying apps from Windows store instead of from vendors.  Windows 8 really only potentially shines on touch screens and what business is going to invest not just in an OS upgrade but entirely new (and expensive) hardware for all their users.  It's a nightmare, in terms of time, money, effort, everything.

I think their "in" is through phones and Surface where people won't be running old desktop legacy programs and are perfectly comfortable with the tiles-like interface over a desktop as it echoes the Ipad/iPhone/Android environment and store.  But unlike Google and Apple, MS doesn't have an in, and they have a huge uphill battle to fight with the hardware makers and also with users who think of MS as unsexy.

Like many places, Virginia agencies skipped Vista.  We were running XP and just moved to Windows 7 this summer.  There's no way we would make the much bigger jump to Windows 8 so soon, even if the hardware were cheaper and Windows 8 worked like awesome right out the box.

You are probably right in that what they should have done is pushed a more business-friendly improved version that looked like desktop.  Basically something like Linux.  Most Linux stuff looks similar enough like Windows desktop that users will have no problem adapting (and can be made to look exactly like Windows if you really want).  But you have the option of adding applets that are kind of trumped up sidebar gadgets and you download programs through repositories that conceptually are like an MS store.

Then they could have taken the next step and just made the repository a formal store and the applets into tiles since that can all be done with platform dependent code.

But then, MS got sued on some stupid BS last time they tried to integrate a browser into a desktop and no one uses their sidebar gadgets now and they are also trying to jump into the hardware game so maybe it makes sense to just jump in.  Although probably not because Ballmer's always been an idiot and Windows 8 and Surface are unsurprisingly not doing so hot.  It's all riding on the Nokia Lumia now I think.  Which is bizarre considering how bad Nokia has sucked for the last few years but that is supposedly a great phone and Windows 8 works awesome on it.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2013, 09:41:09 AM by Zafer Kaya »
Logged

Kwyjibo

  • Bringing Grumpy Back
  • City Elder
  • Posts: 10,608
Re: WTF, Windows 8?
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2013, 08:33:45 AM »

Surface doesn't have a chance with it's price tag.  You can get an iPad for that price...
Logged
Baby, check this out, I've got something to say.  Man, it's so loud in here.

Zafer Kaya

  • City Elder
  • Posts: 3,723
Re: WTF, Windows 8?
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2013, 09:55:29 AM »

Surface RT doesn't have a chance with that watered-down OS. 

Surface with Windows 8 is interesting.  MS will probably screw it up because they are MS but the concept at least has some merit.  MS actually has a lot of interesting ideas, they just always introduce stuff that ends up half-baked, and with terrible marketing plans and timing, and then they get a sweaty Steve Ballmer to talk about at tech conventions and who's going to want to buy the product after that?

lutz

  • City Elder
  • Posts: 1,041
Re: WTF, Windows 8?
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2013, 10:01:07 AM »

They should have thought through how to make Metro work on a PC without needing the desktop...
My thoughts exactly - especially considering that you are still sometimes required to use the desktop even on the Surface, on a comparatively small screen, with no mouse... They should have gone all out for Metro rather than half-arsing it and using the desktop to fall back on.

The Metro interface for smartphones seems to work ok, though, although I haven't played with it very much.
Logged

Kwyjibo

  • Bringing Grumpy Back
  • City Elder
  • Posts: 10,608
Re: WTF, Windows 8?
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2013, 10:12:38 AM »

Surface RT doesn't have a chance with that watered-down OS. 

Surface with Windows 8 is interesting.  MS will probably screw it up because they are MS but the concept at least has some merit.  MS actually has a lot of interesting ideas, they just always introduce stuff that ends up half-baked, and with terrible marketing plans and timing, and then they get a sweaty Steve Ballmer to talk about at tech conventions and who's going to want to buy the product after that?

I agree with you 100%.  Problem is that Apple already has it's reputation established.  MS on the other hand has a reputation for being shaky (Windows 95, great!, Windows 2000, suck!, Windows XP, wonderful!, Windows Vista, shit!, Windows 7, awesome!, Windows 8, what is this crap?).  It doesn't matter how many people like you and I realize how smart their better ideas are as long as there is an Apple out there that has seldom lead it's flock astray (even if the cracks in the foundation are beginning to form) MS is going to have a very hard time taking market share away from the iOS crowd... especially when their iOS competitor hardware costs the same as an iPad.
Logged
Baby, check this out, I've got something to say.  Man, it's so loud in here.

Zafer Kaya

  • City Elder
  • Posts: 3,723
Re: WTF, Windows 8?
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2013, 10:47:21 AM »

I don't mind too much that people just think Apple is cooler than MS.  I hate the Apple=good, MS=evil.  Because Apple is actually super, super evil.

If you want to know my biggest complaint about MS Windows 8, it's the MS store, and forcing me to have an MS account to purchase anything at said store.  And they clearly want everyone to have to purchase from the store.  But MS is only doing it because Google did it and Google did it because Apple did it.  And no one thought twice about it because it was Apple.  

You want me to send you my credit card number which you will retain on file without me having any idea what kind of security you got just so I can use your OS, even if I never purchase a thing? Surefinefinefine.  What could possibly be fishy about that?   Oh, you want my personal info too?  Why not, what could possibly go wrong?  Oh yeah, and throw all my personal data up in that cloud thing you got too.  How is it stored?  What could Apple (or someone else) do with the data?  Why does this app that makes fart noises need to access the GPS and my personal account?  Don't know don't care.

Buy a house way, way out in the country.  Your house technically isn't that secure as there are no locks on the door but you're still safe just because that no one will drive out that far to rob you.  That is your one big advantage.

Now get in your car, drive 100 miles to the nearest large city.  Get out, toss your wallet with all your credit cards and your driver's license in the middle of the street.  Better yet, have all your friends come with you and toss all their wallets and purses exact same location so there's this obvious huge pile of money, credit card information sitting there for everyone to see as an obvious target.  Now drive back home and tell everyone how secure you are.

That is how stupid you sound every time you brag about how your Apple machine never gets viruses.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2013, 10:49:02 AM by Zafer Kaya »
Logged

MissKitty

  • Hooray Beer!
  • City Elder
  • Posts: 8,535
Re: WTF, Windows 8?
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2013, 11:09:34 AM »

I'm terrified of having to upgrade to a new computer - MS or Apple. I'm still using a laptop running XP to run my FamilyTree Maker program, which itself is far, far out of date. Regardless of which OS I end up getting, not all of my data is going to migrate across, which means tons of extra work for me.

MS screws up so much of the time that I have been considering going over a Mac, but fear the learning curve. But with what y'all have been saying about Win8, now I'm frightened that it would be an even bigger learning curve.

I believe I am f*cked.
Logged
Duct tape can't fix stupid.

Kwyjibo

  • Bringing Grumpy Back
  • City Elder
  • Posts: 10,608
Re: WTF, Windows 8?
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2013, 11:28:43 AM »

Yeah, ZK, that is exactly what is going on.  Unfortunately I don't think you can get that genie back in the bottle.  People are far to lax about giving out their info and it's because so far they've been safe doing so.  I don't know how Apple can claim that there can't be viruses on their OS, somebody is going to figure it out.  Same with Android.  It's just a matter of time.

I don't think I'd be too afraid of switching, MK.  It's not that it's that hard to learn, mostly I haven't tried because I'm pissed off that I have to.  I don't think you have to buy your software from MS... most things can be bought elsewhere, or you can get a suitable substitute elsewhere.  I don't intend to get an MS account and so far that's been okay.  We're griping about the "why" of the thing more so than the actual difficulty of learning the software.

For that matter, I haven't used Macs that much, but I really don't think the learning curve is all that steep.  It seems to work pretty much like windows from what I can tell.  Things are in different places, that's about the worst of it. 
Logged
Baby, check this out, I've got something to say.  Man, it's so loud in here.

Zafer Kaya

  • City Elder
  • Posts: 3,723
Re: WTF, Windows 8?
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2013, 12:11:15 PM »

Some journalist at Wired had his id totally hacked just a few months ago.  Someone got the guy's name, address and last four digits of their credit card.  None of that stuff is typically considered private or secure.  Obviously to full credit card is private, but that's kind of why the last four digits aren't.  They give you the last four so you can confirm but still be "safe." 

So the guy called up Applecare with that info. and Applecare gave the dude the Apple account name and let him change the password, giving him control of that account (and by default, also his credit card). 

No one's machine was hacked.  It just took a half-assed piece of social engineering and this guy lost all his files and I think his twitter and facebook accounts.  And the hacker could have gone a lot further I think with what was likely in his Apple account and on iCloud.

There was not as much outrage over this as when Instagram changed their ToS a few months later.

Ella Minnow Pea

  • Numbers Guru
  • Administrator
  • City Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,973
  • Reference Desk
Re: WTF, Windows 8?
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2013, 06:49:29 PM »

Some journalist at Wired had his id totally hacked just a few months ago.  Someone got the guy's name, address and last four digits of their credit card.  None of that stuff is typically considered private or secure.  Obviously to full credit card is private, but that's kind of why the last four digits aren't.  They give you the last four so you can confirm but still be "safe." 

So the guy called up Applecare with that info. and Applecare gave the dude the Apple account name and let him change the password, giving him control of that account (and by default, also his credit card). 

No one's machine was hacked.  It just took a half-assed piece of social engineering and this guy lost all his files and I think his twitter and facebook accounts.  And the hacker could have gone a lot further I think with what was likely in his Apple account and on iCloud.

There was not as much outrage over this as when Instagram changed their ToS a few months later.


It's a really scary story. http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2012/08/apple-amazon-mat-honan-hacking/
Logged
also known as rcc94
Pages: [1]   Go Up