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Author Topic: Survivor  (Read 28818 times)

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Poncho

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Re: Survivor
« Reply #30 on: December 15, 2011, 10:57:49 AM »

Personally, Marquesas is the gold standard of boring.  Thailand is the dirtiest season ever.  You needed a decontamination shower after that season.

As someone who is proud to have seen every episode of every season... I don't get into the whole "cult of Survivor" or anything.  I watch it because it entertains me, nothing more.  I don't mind an occasional Pagonging... because just by the sheer number of seasons, it's going to happen sometimes.  I just hope "my" people are on the right side of it.

I make a lot of internal judgments about how the season will go and watch to see if I am correct.  I feel more like a Survivor lab tech than a fan in the early episodes, but by about the 3rd-5th episode I settle into just being entertained. 

Just for giggles, my boot list for this season was basically (not in boot order):

Pre-Jury boots
Stacey
Semhar
Mark
Christine
Dawn
Elyse

Jury:
Coach
Ozzy
Albert
Brandon
Cochran
Mikayla
Rick
Jim
Sophie

F3:
Keith
Whitney
Edna


Basically, Keith & Whitney turning on Ozzy @ 4 or 5 and taking the goat Edna into F3.  Knowing that Edna had just stood around and Keith would probably get the bulk of the votes.
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notoriouspbake

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Re: Survivor
« Reply #31 on: December 15, 2011, 11:11:29 AM »

when did survivor turn into the 700 club?   >:( i don't remember god being such a big player in seasons past.

what to say about brandon? did he not realize that anyone who has given up immunity has been voted out? and coach voted him out to eliminate a wild card, and get a jury vote. although keeping him would be the ideal goat. perhaps he may get lucky and take out ozzy, eliminating another problem for coach (nothing was given away in the trailer).

so, if ozzy comes back = gone. if brandon comes back, albert goes, then sophie.  your final 3: coach, rick, and brandon. your welcome.

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cyclone

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Re: Survivor
« Reply #32 on: December 15, 2011, 12:01:42 PM »

Personally, Marquesas is the gold standard of boring.  Thailand is the dirtiest season ever.  You needed a decontamination shower after that season.

I don't mind an occasional Pagonging... because just by the sheer number of seasons, it's going to happen sometimes. 

Marquesas was a dull season but it had enough going for it that it would stay out of my lowest echelon of season rankings (which doesn't exist, but if it did).  Even though I'm not particularly a fan of any of them, Rob, Kathy and Sean were at least interesting players with decent storylines.  Obviously there was the big powershift and the infamous "purple rock" boot, but I also liked Rob's blindside, and IIRC there was another decent blindside that Rob orchestrated on another alpha male-type.  The final two obviously killed any momentum it had though, and Vecepia has to be the most forgettable winner. 

I used Thailand for the "boring" example because of a combination of predictability and an overwhelmingly dull cast.  For me the cast is always the no. 1 thing that makes or breaks a season ... no matter what kind of odd twisting they throw in or how much I may dislike the boot order, I just need people that are actually strategizing or are at least interesting, and not interesting in a "just be crazy for the cameras" kind of way.  In Thailand, Brian Heidik dominated the game so soundly from the very beginning that I had never seen a more predictable game right from the start.  That itself isn't a bad thing, because a great winner is a good thing.  But the rest of the cast was so painfully dull.  Honestly ... Shii Ann was Thailand's All-Star representative.  That should tell you something.

Anyway, it's cool to talk with someone who can actually namedrop/reference an older season.  Feel free to pick apart what I just said ... I enjoy the discussion.

Now, as far as Pagongings go, I agree with you that it's part of the game and you just have to hope your people are on the right side.  But after the last two seasons, I feel like they'll probably start throwing in a tribal swap to mix things up.  And I'd be in favor of that.  With the last two, the returning players were in such a position of power (Rob and Coach), that the Pagonings were especially boring because even once the lesser tribe was finally picked off, you knew that it still wasn't even going to be interesting.  I guess I'm also interested in why you think this season is worse/more boring than the last one.  Both had solid pre-merges I thought, with even tribes and a couple blindsides, but favor SP for also having the Ozzy sacrificing himself storyline. Then both had predictable Pagonings, but in SP you at least had the huge merge episode with the Cochran flip, even though I hated the move.  And I would also give SP a definitive edge in casting.  Neither was great but last season all you had was Rob dominating all of the starry-eyed lemmings plus Phillip hogging a bunch of airtime. 
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euro60

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Re: Survivor
« Reply #33 on: December 15, 2011, 10:47:41 PM »

Just now catching up... what an episode last night... it looked like a bore, until Brandon went "loco". Can you imagine the screams and high-fives that went up in the Survivor producer's office when he decided he was gonna give the immunity neckless away? GOLDEN! And I had no doubt that Coach was gonna vote him off. How sly of Coach to tell Brandon "it was God's will", wow.

I'm not discounting Ozzy to keep on winning the challenges and remain in the hunt for a F3 spot, in which case he might be in  avery good position. If he doesn't, then it's obviously Coach's game to lose.
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Poncho

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Re: Survivor
« Reply #34 on: December 16, 2011, 10:55:36 AM »

I agree with you about Brian... I just can't say "Thailand" without feeling dirty.  It is so far in the past now that is the only real reaction you get from me on it.  Shii-Ann is an idiot.  Her Shii-Devil routine was about as scary as getting chased by field mouse.  Sure, a few ninnies will run and climb on a chair, but anyone really tough will just step on it.

I just hope there is never a bring back old players unless it is strictly an all-star show.  I liked it when it was Stephanie/Bobby Duh for the first few episodes, then I quickly realized it was a horrible concept.  I'm willing to bend on the Fans vs. Favs season.  That was great ONCE.  That was different, an entire tribe of reruns was fine.  I hope they never do it again, but it was fine.

This Steph/BD, Rob/Russell, Coach/Ozzy thing sucks.  It must be something they sees as a ratings gimmick or they wouldn't keep doing it.  That's why you do all-star seasons... to keep the "ooh, I remember them!  I wonder if they could do it better now?" thing going.

What is your ideal season using past elements?


Mine would be:

18 contestants
2 tribes of 9
Redemption, not Exile
2 hidden immunity idols, no replacement idols (single time use for each tribe)
Merge @ 10 (1 on Redemption = 11 players total)
Redemption #1 back in immediately after merge (will they re-join old team? will they join new team? less likely to be auto-boot and more likely swing-vote)
7 person jury (not 9)
Redemption #2 back in immediately after second to last boot (redemption person is in the final competition)
final 2 (not 3)

It hasn't been used before, so I didn't include it above... but I think I'd like something where the F2 isn't a which goat can I stand against, but they get to choose the final sub-challenge that the other 2 compete in. 

Ex: Edgar the master puppeteer wins the final challenge.  He's a lock into the F2.  He has well-liked and agile doofus Krissy or smart, but an unliked goat Hector to choose from.  Unless he's Colby, he's going to pick Hector in a straight pick, because the goat is the best choice.

Edgar wins.  He is then given the choice of 3 minimally described challenges to pick who he sits against.  That way there is still the shot that he doesn't get who he wants, but in fairness, gets a greater shot at his competitor... just not a lock.

1. A balancing challenge... duh, he's not picking this because Krissy is agile and super skinny.
2. A mental puzzle... he might pick this because Hector is pretty smart.
3. A physical challenge... perhaps he knows Hector twisted his ankle at the last challenge, so he doesn't choose this one or he does because he feels Krissy can't beat Hector even with a bum ankle.
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cyclone

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Re: Survivor
« Reply #35 on: December 16, 2011, 05:08:58 PM »

I just hope there is never a bring back old players unless it is strictly an all-star show. 

This Steph/BD, Rob/Russell, Coach/Ozzy thing sucks.

Completely agree.  I wouldn't really be thrilled about an all-out new All-Stars either, but with season 25 approaching and their lack of faith in new casts, you know it's in the fold.  I just hope that they get a little creative with the casting and we don't just get the 3rd/4th/5th renditions of the Russells, Parvatis, Coaches, etc.  That would be mega-lame.  I've heard some "old vs. new school" themed All-Star rumors going around, but that's probably just purely fan speculation. 

That's an interesting format you came up with.  I agree with a lot of it - especially returning to the 18-person cast, no re-hidden HIIs, and a final 2. 

I would also go with 18 contestants. With the bigger casts (among other aspects), character development has kind of gone out the window.  In a modern season, the episode format is strategy -> challenge -> strategy -> Tribal.  While I want good strategy, I don't want the editing to focus on two or three people while the rest of the cast is ignored, i.e. Rick in the current season.  I would have no Redemption (or Exile for that matter).  At first, I liked the concept of RI.  It definitely had the potential to drastically change strategies, and I also liked the idea since I typically only end up rooting for one or two people a season, and so if they get booted early, I could still have hope and be able to root for them.  But after enduring two season of it I just see it as a total failure.  I don't like how it has taken the impact out of a true blindside, and all 3 returnees thus far have been re-voted out at the following Tribal (and I fully expect Ozzy to be the 4th).  Granted, your modifications would greatly improve it.  I would probably just give the returnees immunity for the first Tribal after their return at the very least.  One HII at each camp only, none re-hidden after used.  Totally agree with you there.  It got way too gimmicky with the "Russell factor" there for a few seasons, when HIIs were being passed around like candy.  I still love the concept of it though, just have to make it a specialty.  I would also include one tribal swap (at a pre-determined time as to not intentionally screw any person or tribe), to A. prevent a Pagoning and B. make the pre-merge more interesting.  To make it fair, do like they have done in the past where one tribe member simply gets to basically draft one or two people to swap.  And lastly, definitely return to final 2.  Final 3 was another idea I liked on paper but has proven to be a dud at this point.  Oh, and one more thing.  While I know it must be difficult to come up with ideas at this point, they really need to step it up as far as challenges go.  I don't need mud wrestling, but we need something physical every now and then to offset the millions of puzzles.  An occasional water challenge would be a nice refreshment.
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euro60

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Re: Survivor
« Reply #36 on: December 18, 2011, 11:36:16 PM »

Really enjoyed tonite's finale (I didn't watch the reunion afterwards). First, the last 2 immunity challenges were cleaver and challenging, and to see Ozzy win the first one, and then Sophie the last one was great TV enterainment. I knew all along that Coach would stick to the "family" and vote Ozzy off, that's been his pattern. Once the F3 were clear, I was pretty certain that Sophie would win, and she did. Coach got exposed in the Q&A session by the jury big time! If it was up to me, Ozzy would be the winner, he was the clear dominant player in the challenges, and the most likeable of who was left. Alas, he came up one immunity challenge short. Had he won that, I'm pretty sure he'd won.

In all, quite a satifying season from my perspective. Bring on the next season!
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trixi

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Re: Survivor
« Reply #37 on: December 19, 2011, 12:00:47 AM »

During the reunion, they polled the jury and Ozzy would have won, according to them, if he had been in the final 3. 
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notoriouspbake

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Re: Survivor
« Reply #38 on: December 19, 2011, 12:11:57 AM »

first: an unsatisfying end to the season. compared to ozzie, none of the f3 were worthy of my vote, but i'd a given it to coach. albert was a poser, and sophie completely rode on coach's coattails. it did make for a interesting final tribal; euro is right, coach was exposed. i was rooting for ozzie to win that last challenge and win the game, but you can't always get what you want.

euro, make sure you watch the reunion show, spoilers below:

interesting how seeing them cleaned up and out of the context of the competition changes your view of the cast. i'd use cochran as a lawyer, and i loathed his persona on the game. he came across as quite intelligent. no surprise with the keith/whitney romance. edna got pregnant. but the first time i felt sorry for a cast member was brandon: no family came to be there with him, except for russell and he was just mean to the kid. he said his family was not proud of performance on the show; granted he made the stupidest move possible by giving away immunity and should be called out for that, but making a mistake on a game show is not worthy of your family not being there for you. clearly the hantz's are a bunch of douches. the only possibility i could come up with is russell staged this to keep his villain status, but even that's a terrible thing to do to one's nephew. probst even suggested a brandon vs russell show, but i've had my fill of russell; he's a dick just for the sake of being a dick on a tv show.

curious for the next season with the two tribes, one camp idea - but i hope it doesn't become a paranoia fest, where anyone who shares or talks to the other tribe is targeted immediately. the preview said they had the option of sharing resources or not. if they choose not to share resources (i'm talking about the obvious, sharing fire, water, and easily obtained food) i can see a russell type raiding party against the other tribe at night to take their food. and now we're moving to an all out tribal war, which would be stupid. sharing of resources makes for more friendly societies in real life, and i'm sure that idea would apply to survivor as well - and make it easier to play the social aspect of the game, which would more entertaining for me to watch.
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cyclone

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Re: Survivor
« Reply #39 on: December 19, 2011, 12:18:17 AM »

It was definitely a quality finale, which makes me feel better about what was an underwhelming (though not terrible) season.  

Ozzy returning made it exciting because there were legitimately 3 prospective winners still out there - Ozzy, Coach and Sophie.  Obviously, had Ozzy won the second challenge, he would have won easily (and euro60 - that was confirmed at the reunion).  Couldn't help but feel for Ozzy when he choked on that puzzle.  I've never been a fan of his game, but there's no doubting that he's hard working and great TV, so to see him win 9 challenges in a row then blow a lead to lose the final one ... I admit that I was rooting for him at that point.  Now, once Ozzy was voted out, I still anticipated a Coach win with two or maybe three Sophie votes.

You have to give Sophie a ton of credit for accomplishing what so many Survivors fail to do ... deliver a great Final Tribal performance.  Albert and Coach just came off cheesy.  She was real, and most importantly, spilling the info about the HII already being found was bloody brilliant.  Just absolutely brilliant.  She handled herself well all throughout.  Now, all that being said, I do think Coach was the most deserving person there, even though I personally wasn't rooting for a returning player to win.  Actually, Coach is probably the best second placer of any season ever.  He did play a very, very good game.  None of his eliminations were really truly of the "backstab" variety, and he seemingly handled them fairly well.  He had even convinced Brandon that his boot was necessary/okay.  Sophie was an okay winner for me.  She will probably grow on me over time.  I liked her game, but it was nothing spectacular.  She was clearly by and large a coattail rider, which isn't a strategy I respect despite it sometimes being successful.  But alas, she at least had strategy behind it, won some crucial challenges, and capped it off with a great jury speech.

For those that did see the reunion, how bad was the whole Hantz fiasco?  Essentially, Brandon stated that no one from his family was there (Russell actually was) and that most of his family was not proud of him once he returned home.  Russell in typical fashion then when on to rip Brandon for playing a horrible game.  The whole thing was rather disgusting and uncomfortable, and I say that as someone who was no fan of Brandon on the show.  And I liked Jim (my favorite player) zinging Cochran good one more time.

All in all, I didn't think this was a great season, but it was a lot better than Redemption Island and Nicaragua, and that was much needed.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2011, 01:38:26 AM by cyclone »
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notoriouspbake

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Re: Survivor
« Reply #40 on: December 19, 2011, 12:41:36 AM »



Ozzy returning made it exciting because there were legitimately 3 prospective winners still out there - Ozzy, Coach and Sophie.  Obviously, had Ozzy won the second challenge, he would have won easily (and euro60 - that was confirmed at the reunion).  Couldn't help but feel for Ozzy when he choked on that puzzle.  I've never been a fan of his game, but there's no doubting that he's hard working and great TV, so to see him win 9 challenges in a row then blow a lead to lose the final one ... I admit that I was rooting for him at that point.  Now, once Ozzy was voted out, I still anticipated a Coach win with two or maybe three Sophie votes.

You have to give Sophie a ton of credit for accomplishing what so many Survivors fail to do ... deliver a great Final Tribal performance.  ...... But alas, she at least had strategy behind it, won some crucial challenges, and capped it off with a great jury speech.

For those that did see the reunion, how bad was the whole Hantz fiasco?  Essentially, Brandon stated that no one from his family was there (Russell actually was) and that most of his family was not proud of him once he returned home.  Russell in typical fashion then when on to rip Brandon for playing a horrible game.  The whole thing was rather disgusting and uncomfortable, and I say that as someone who was no fan of Brandon on the show.  And I liked Jim (my favorite player) zinging Cochran good one more time.


agreed, dropping the staged hii "finding" on the jury was probably the move that won the game for sophie.  jim zinging cochrane was fair enough. there is a difference in playing to win vs. playing to stay in the game longer.

yeah, i predict probst will keep the hantz's off of the show from here on out. they're not good tv anymore. i doubt i'd watch another season with a hantz in it after russell, brandon, and the weirdness that was the reunion show. perhaps the hantz's believe they're now bigger than survivor? kinda like they've made survivor instead of the other way around? anyway, keep the hantz's off of survivor!!
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cyclone

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Re: Survivor
« Reply #41 on: December 19, 2011, 12:43:37 AM »

clearly the hantz's are a bunch of douches. the only possibility i could come up with is russell staged this to keep his villain status, but even that's a terrible thing to do to one's nephew.

I can assure you that that wasn't staged.  Russell has been taking vitriolic shots at Brandon on Twitter just about every week of the season, and not of the lighthearted variety.  You would have never known they were related.  And it's also pretty clear from the family visit episode that Brandon's dad is the same way.  The whole thing is pretty unbelievable, really.  And that whole Russell vs. Brandon thing has to be a joke.  I know CBS was so unoriginal that they put Russell on 3 of the last 5 seasons, but I really can't see them stooping that low as to base a whole season on that horrible idea.

Now, the "One World" thing.  My initial though is to wonder what kind of twist is bound to happen at some point.  For example, how will that correlate with a merge?  Unless it just literally means it becomes one tribe and the individual immunity starts, which would be pretty underwhelming considering they have been together the whole time.  I'm wondering if there isn't some drastic twist planned to shake things up, maybe one tribe gets separated or something.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2011, 12:46:29 AM by cyclone »
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notoriouspbake

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Re: Survivor
« Reply #42 on: December 19, 2011, 09:10:42 AM »

clearly the hantz's are a bunch of douches. the only possibility i could come up with is russell staged this to keep his villain status, but even that's a terrible thing to do to one's nephew.

I can assure you that that wasn't staged.  Russell has been taking vitriolic shots at Brandon on Twitter just about every week of the season, and not of the lighthearted variety.  You would have never known they were related.  And it's also pretty clear from the family visit episode that Brandon's dad is the same way.  The whole thing is pretty unbelievable, really.  And that whole Russell vs. Brandon thing has to be a joke.  I know CBS was so unoriginal that they put Russell on 3 of the last 5 seasons, but I really can't see them stooping that low as to base a whole season on that horrible idea.


sounds like being away from his family for 40 days was the best thing to happen to brandon in a long time.
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cyclone

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Re: Survivor
« Reply #43 on: December 20, 2011, 12:32:42 PM »













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notoriouspbake

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Re: Survivor
« Reply #44 on: January 30, 2012, 12:42:51 PM »

aren't we down to two weeks before the new one world season?
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