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Author Topic: Random Political Musings  (Read 46441 times)

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Kwyjibo

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1035 on: April 03, 2018, 04:30:13 PM »


just because trump's bad?  the clinton's are nicer versions of putin 

Can't.  Stop.  Laughing.  You say some nutty things dude, but this one is just out there.

Every single count on the "hit list" has been debunked a hundred times over.  Just because you want it to be true, and because other idiots believe it, doesn't mean it has any credibility.

Asking someone if they'd vote against Trump just because he's bad is like asking them if they avoid walking in heavy traffic just because they might get hit by a car.  There is no further reasoning needed.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2018, 04:37:35 PM by Kwyjibo »
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Zafer Kaya

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1036 on: April 03, 2018, 05:06:44 PM »

The best reason not to believe in conspiracy theories is that they assume some level of intelligence from the US public that just isn't there.

Like, why would Clinton need to kill these people to cover up some kind of crime when people will just believe anything they read on the internet? 

One of the interesting things that Trump does is he never explains or reconciles his statements.  He'll lie about something obvious or he'll say one thing and contradict himself the next.  Without ever trying to acknowledge that any facts, context or history lies outside of the thing he saying.

Given two seemingly contradictory facts, his supporters will construct their own story to attempt to reconcile them.  It's one they'll believe because they wrote it themselves.  This way, Trump never has to worry about PR or doing complicated surveys to assess how his base is feeling.  He just throws a ton of shit out there, and his supporters will pick what they like, ignore the rest, and construct their own narrative to tie it all together.  Then all Trump has to do is recite some lines from the story they just wrote for him.  Or really, not do anything at all since the story has already been written.

Half the bodies on the list are allegedly there so Clinton could cover up his sexual harassment.  And yet there's no shortage of Trump accusers and evidence and no one gives a shit.  So you don't need to kill people to hide something, or apologize or explain, or even acknowledge it at all.  You can just do it right in the open.

I've always said this about traditional government criticism.  Yes, there is a certain amount of backdoor deals and such that take place.  But the worst stuff happens right in front of your face.  There's a $1.3 trillion budget passed on the heels of a ridiculous tax cut that makes no sense and it's been audited by government agencies that all say it makes no sense, and every reputable economist says it makes no sense.  People are just like "I don't trust the experts."  So.. there you go.  People believe whatever stupid crap they want, and all you have to do is let them.

daytime drinking

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1037 on: April 03, 2018, 09:25:51 PM »

i'll be honest, i didn't think trump had any association with the clinton hit list.  maybe campaigned on it partly.  all i'm saying is that it's not out of the realm of possibility it's remotely true.  if trump was rumored to have had a hit list, i wouldn't bat an eye 
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Zafer Kaya

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1038 on: April 03, 2018, 09:52:20 PM »

Trump doesn’t have a hit list. 

I mean Putin probably has a legit triple digit body count.  Doing real estate in NY or casinos in Atlantic City, pretty sure Trump knows some mob guys with real murder under their belt.  That might go on someone’s Facebook fake news post, but it doesn’t really count.

Why would Trump need to kill anyone?  I mean, we know how he operates already.  He bullies people into signing NDA’s, he does favors for shady people who do shady things in return, he lies, and he throws people under the bus, he files abusive litigation.  He does what he does right in front of everyone and his followers look the other way.

daytime drinking

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1039 on: April 03, 2018, 10:00:06 PM »


just because trump's bad?  the clinton's are nicer versions of putin 

Can't.  Stop.  Laughing.  You say some nutty things dude, but this one is just out there.

Every single count on the "hit list" has been debunked a hundred times over.  Just because you want it to be true, and because other idiots believe it, doesn't mean it has any credibility.

Asking someone if they'd vote against Trump just because he's bad is like asking them if they avoid walking in heavy traffic just because they might get hit by a car.  There is no further reasoning needed.

that kind of proves my point i think.  you'll trot out any democrats' name.  why not try my brand of stupidity?  it's mostly apathy
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euro60

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1040 on: April 04, 2018, 12:00:20 AM »

He bullies people into signing NDA’s, he does favors for shady people who do shady things in return, he lies, and he throws people under the bus, he files abusive litigation.  He does what he does right in front of everyone and his followers look the other way.
So the question is in 2020, will there be enough others (non-Trump followers) who will care enough to show up at the voting booth (or in early voting) to make a difference and throw this buffoon out of office?

Maybe I'm a delirious optimist, but I think the answer will be YES.

Only time will tell of course.
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Zafer Kaya

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1041 on: April 04, 2018, 04:51:21 PM »

There might be enough of an enthusiasm gap in 2020 for people who didn't vote to head to the polls and vote Democrat.  It really wouldn't take that many, since the election was pretty close.

Then again, Trump is President now because these same assholes didn't care.  If there's an anti-Trump swell, do the Bernie supporters get even more adamant about moving to the left?  Do the ex-union types who were conservative in every other way get their manufacturing jobs and re-join unions?  Will we be forced to acknowledge that many black people voted for Obama because he was black, but otherwise don't care about politics?

It's like when Jones won Alabama and the next day on Facebook there were all these posts like African-American women were heroes for showing up and voting against Moore.  Do I get to blame them then, for not bothering to vote against Trump?

It's hard to get excited either way.  The problem isn't Trump, it's the people.  People are not going get any smarter even one side or the other loses an election.  Trump supporters are old so hopefully they die soon.  I guess that's the "bright spot."  But the millennials don't seem much like winners, either. 

euro60

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1042 on: April 12, 2018, 12:12:58 AM »

so Paul Ryan, Speaker of the House, will not run for re-election.

Rats running away from a fast-sinking ship.

I predict there will be a sea-change in the US House in the midterms, the likes we have't seen in a long time. And well-deserved, I might add.

There was a great piece on NPR's All Things Considered today where they played Ryan's all anti-Trump venom in 2016 (and it was many). Then, when Trump won the election, Ryan suddenly changed, and became a Trump accomplice. Shameful. Good night and good riddance.

The GOP as we used to know is about to be blown into oblivion. And I'm saying this as someone who used to lean and vote Republican. But no longer.
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luisterpaul

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1043 on: April 12, 2018, 09:13:29 AM »

I hope you're right, but Democrats have a habit of fucking up a good thing. (Republicans, too, for that matter.)
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Kwyjibo

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1044 on: April 12, 2018, 09:34:10 AM »

Asking someone if they'd vote against Trump just because he's bad is like asking them if they avoid walking in heavy traffic just because they might get hit by a car.  There is no further reasoning needed.

that kind of proves my point i think.  you'll trot out any democrats' name.  why not try my brand of stupidity?  it's mostly apathy

If your argument is that maybe it's not a bad thing to get hit by a car, then there's really no point in talking to you.  It is not apathy to make an informed decision based on actual knowledge, and not on the 1 in 1,000,000 chance that some conspiracy theory that has been disproven time and time again might be plausible.
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Zafer Kaya

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1045 on: April 12, 2018, 10:30:02 AM »

that kind of proves my point i think.  you'll trot out any democrats' name.  why not try my brand of stupidity?  it's mostly apathy

No, it doesn't prove your point.  It's just a lazy and passive aggressive argument.

Logically, "Why not X?" is literally the same as "Why X?"  There's not actually a statement there.  It's a question left unanswered so it can't prove anything.  And "You'll trot any Democrats name out there" is just a statement that is entirely unconnected.

"You'll throw Trump's name out there.  Why not another Democrat?" 
"You'll vote for a candidate either way.  Why not God?"
"We're all going to die.  Why not Atilla the Hun?"
"Roses are red.  Why not my cat?"
"Tides come and go.  Why not mass suicide?"
"I don't care where we eat for dinner.  I heard a new restaurant opened up downtown."

The only logical reason to recommend Trump over Democrats is that Democrats are bad (at least relatively) and Trump is good.  So in that statement there is an implied argument, where "You'll throw any Democrats name out there" equals "Democrats are bad."  And "Why not Trump?" is "Trump is better."  But there's no evidence or argument to support those assertions.  And you just dodge having to prove them by trotting out nothing statements that cannot be attacked but don't really represent your viewpoint.

If you're apathetic, then why are you even talking about this?

Kwyjibo

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1046 on: April 12, 2018, 12:04:44 PM »

See? I thought he was calling me apathetic.  Nouns? Verbs? Subjects? Predicates?  Who needs em?

Basic sentence structure is your friend. 
« Last Edit: April 12, 2018, 02:31:33 PM by Kwyjibo »
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daytime drinking

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1047 on: April 12, 2018, 01:05:56 PM »

that kind of proves my point i think.  you'll trot out any democrats' name.  why not try my brand of stupidity?  it's mostly apathy

No, it doesn't prove your point.  It's just a lazy and passive aggressive argument.

Logically, "Why not X?" is literally the same as "Why X?"  There's not actually a statement there.  It's a question left unanswered so it can't prove anything.  And "You'll trot any Democrats name out there" is just a statement that is entirely unconnected.

"You'll throw Trump's name out there.  Why not another Democrat?" 
"You'll vote for a candidate either way.  Why not God?"
"We're all going to die.  Why not Atilla the Hun?"
"Roses are red.  Why not my cat?"
"Tides come and go.  Why not mass suicide?"
"I don't care where we eat for dinner.  I heard a new restaurant opened up downtown."

The only logical reason to recommend Trump over Democrats is that Democrats are bad (at least relatively) and Trump is good.  So in that statement there is an implied argument, where "You'll throw any Democrats name out there" equals "Democrats are bad."  And "Why not Trump?" is "Trump is better."  But there's no evidence or argument to support those assertions.  And you just dodge having to prove them by trotting out nothing statements that cannot be attacked but don't really represent your viewpoint.

If you're apathetic, then why are you even talking about this?

i suppose it's apathy in that i don't see how things can get any better.  they can only get worse even if someone is trying to do right because of the mighty gulf.  no one cares about the libertarians but they care about you

i don't follow your reply regarding my assertion that a democrat will vote for any democrat over trump.  it could be someone worse then trump but with the letter d in front of their name, they'd vote for him/her instead of not voting or a third party.  i thought it was pretty straight forward.  and it works that way on the other side of the aisle.  fuckin' have some principles man
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daytime drinking

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1048 on: April 12, 2018, 01:08:55 PM »

Asking someone if they'd vote against Trump just because he's bad is like asking them if they avoid walking in heavy traffic just because they might get hit by a car.  There is no further reasoning needed.

that kind of proves my point i think.  you'll trot out any democrats' name.  why not try my brand of stupidity?  it's mostly apathy

If your argument is that maybe it's not a bad thing to get hit by a car, then there's really no point in talking to you.  It is not apathy to make an informed decision based on actual knowledge, and not on the 1 in 1,000,000 chance that some conspiracy theory that has been disproven time and time again might be plausible.

well that was your example.  and i feel you're far from apathetic.  i was talking in the first person and didn't venture but i see why you thought that.  i understand from time to time i have to explain my unusual vernacular
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Zafer Kaya

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1049 on: April 12, 2018, 05:31:02 PM »

it could be someone worse then trump but with the letter d in front of their name, they'd vote for him/her instead of not voting or a third party.

How could it be someone worse than Trump if it doesn't make a difference?

See?  You're not apathetic, you're just lazy. 
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