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Author Topic: Random Political Musings  (Read 67494 times)

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Markalot

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1275 on: August 29, 2018, 12:47:44 PM »

I honestly don't know if it's calculated or not.  He had a reality TV show, he understands the shock jock bit.

So moving on,  this mid term election is going to be exciting to watch.  I think the dems just gave it away in Florida, but who knows.  Trumpian vs Progressive.  It will be ugly.   Cruz is in panic mode in Texas, but polls have been so very wrong it's hard to get excited about it.
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Zafer Kaya

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1276 on: August 29, 2018, 01:35:52 PM »

What should have been top billing?

McCain was before he tweeted, which was why he tweeted IMO. Trump is a PR machine. Prior to that it was the half mast issue, but that went away so he needed something else to grab attention.

Like Kwyjibo, I think a lot of this is not so deliberate as much as it's just who Trump is.  But I don't deny that it is effective.

But so what?  Trump is a PR machine because he's the goddamn President of the United States.  The press is going to report on what he says, as they should.  And they're going to be critical was he advocates something stupid, as they should.

It's not the media's job to bring down Trump.  That's where they are starting to go wrong and it bothers me.  Their job is to report the news.  What the President says is news. 

Trump isn't manipulating the press, he's manipulating the people.  It's up to the voters to be smarter. 

As for the primaries, they went badly for Democrats.  The relative moderate and easily electable candidate won the primary in Arizona and the far left won in Florida.

I haven't followed the Florida primaries that closely but I don't think it's that big a deal in and of itself.  I think Florida and its rich old retirees is one of the few states that has actually moved closer towards Trump post election, so the Dems didn't have much of a chance anyway.  Also, while Gillum is undoubtedly a "progressive," he doesn't strike me as a big flame-thrower like say, Cortez-Ocasio. And Gwen Graham is so moderate as to be DINO-ish so it's not surprising that Democrats would be unhappy with her.

It could be indicative of a bigger trend of progressive/far left types splitting the party and the Bernie Bros voting Green or not voting.  That's definitely a serious concern.  I'm just not ready to draw that conclusion from primary.

Fortunately, those issues can be dodged in mid-terms.  At least in the House.  You run the far left candidates in the far left districts, and the moderate candidates in the moderate suburban areas.  No one gets in each other's way.  You might end up with a dysfunctional Congress but since all the Democrats can do at this point is block legislation there shouldn't be much conflict there either.  It's all going to blow up at some point, and 2020 could be rough but it may be too soon to worry about it.

It seems to me like if you ran someone with a moderate platform (tougher border security but not a wall, restricting immigration but not being a total nut about it) plus pro-pot legalization, at this point that would be enough of a party uniter plus some independent support when the alternative is Trump.  But it could change a lot in two years.


daytime drinking

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1277 on: August 29, 2018, 02:13:32 PM »

it's not illegal for google and such to prop up biased news is it?  i know it's shocking, but i'm not terrible versed in the world of internet regulation news.  man, i don't want the government controlling the internet.  that's pretty short sighted.  what happens in 28 years when the republicans are no longer in power?  trump was running a sun tzu esque campaign.  but there has to be oversight of some sort.  like some sort of committee that verifies the algorithms they use or something   
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Markalot

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1278 on: August 29, 2018, 02:40:38 PM »

It's a conspiracy theory more than anything else.  Google results are based on popularity and views, there's an algorithm.  All the results are saying is that there are more anti-trump articles and news and pages on the internet than pro trump.  This is not bias, it's reality. 

What Trump wants is what all fringe elements want, and that's to be treated as if their ideas are as popular as the other 'side'.  In order to achieve that you would have to ADD bias to the system to boost less popular ideas.   He can sign all the executive orders he wants, and make all the regulations he wants, but Google will take him to court and he will lose.

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daytime drinking

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1279 on: August 29, 2018, 02:55:58 PM »

nothing can stop artificial enhancement of internet popularity i presume.  i'm picturing paid interns plugging away at cnn for eight hours a day.  it's amazing that trump even has the approval rating he does and most likely is going to be reelected
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Paco

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1280 on: August 29, 2018, 04:07:42 PM »

  trump was running a sun tzu esque campaign. 

I can't even...
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dirk

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1281 on: August 29, 2018, 06:09:36 PM »

it's not illegal for google and such to prop up biased news is it?  i know it's shocking, but i'm not terrible versed in the world of internet regulation news.  man, i don't want the government controlling the internet.  that's pretty short sighted.  what happens in 28 years when the republicans are no longer in power?  trump was running a sun tzu esque campaign.  but there has to be oversight of some sort.  like some sort of committee that verifies the algorithms they use or something
It's not illegal, but as others have said, it also isn't happening. For example, if you went to google and search for Trump News before his tweet went everywhere, the very first result was an article from FoxNews. You have to remember that to Trump, anything negative is biased against him. He thinks it is biased news that the Cohen guilty plea got as much press as it did, even though it was a HUGE story. You can never take anything Trump says at his word, because words don't mean anything to him. He uses them how he wants whether it is true or not.
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Paco

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1282 on: August 29, 2018, 06:45:22 PM »

One of my fears with this guy, and there are many, is his relentless fomenting of his base. He throws anything and everything up against the wall and sees what sticks. He's a classic snake-oil salesman who pushes stochastic terrorism.
And the worst part is, he's proud of it and so are his fans.
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Zafer Kaya

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1283 on: August 29, 2018, 07:06:39 PM »

Trying to pyschoanalyze Trump is a foolís game.  But I donít think he actually craves attention in the real world sense.

He is massively narcissistic, without a doubt so he needs the ego stroke.  But he does it all on his own.  If he buys a souvenir Time cover that says he is the man of the year, then goddammit he is the man of the year.  He must be rich because he has so many gold covered things.  He had the biggest inauguration ever, etc.  I mean, Heís not totally delusional.  He is aware on some level these things are factually not true. And he has limits or he could not be effective as a human being, much less a business leader or POTUS.  Itís just that he is awesome about not letting that spoil his emotional state.  He compartmentalizes it somehow.

So I do not think he needs Democrats to recognize him as either a great person or great enemy.  He just goes to rallies in front of his wildly cheering supporters and that reaffirms his view that he is awesome. 

I think his constant need to put himself in the news actually is somewhat of a strategy, albeit one thatís instinctive more than deliberate.  I think that Trump is actually really shit at reading other people, which is a byproduct of living in your own created world.

So what he does is, he just tosses stuff out there and sees how people react.  Like he has said some incredibly insane thingsó like taking away guns without due process.  I mean, even liberals couldnít really get down with that, much less his core supporters.  No one advising Trump would ever say that was a good idea.

But he threw that out there and his own supporters wer like ďWhat?!? Oh hell, no!Ē  So then he just kind of moved on like it never really happened.

I think his ability to adopt whatever stance his audience responds to, regardless of logic or conventional wisdom is kind of special.  There are/were Republicans far to the right of Trump ideologically who would not say the things Trump has said on immigration despite the fact they they really believe it and he does not.  You could probably only say things like that BECAUSE you donít actually believe it.  Trump is inherently and transparently insincere, which is why people let him flip-flop or lie.  He must secretly be on their side and playing 4-D chess.  He and Mueller must secretly be in cahoots.

I feel like Trumpís thing is like, ďHey, it doesnít matter to me because Iíll always be the greatest in my mind.  The ending is already written, and I win.  So you just fill in whatever details you want and tell me what story you want to hear and weíll just go with that plot.Ē

So, it really would hurt Trump badly if the media stopped reporting on him and closed off his feedback loop.  But since the mainstream media is already not part of his feedback loop, they donít really matter.  But I think that if Fox News were somehow tragically destroyed in an explosion, Trump wouldnít last six months before his completely destroying his chances in 2020 if not getting impeached before.

If Trump pushed McGahn out, it was a bad move.  I donít think McGahn is all that competent, but in an odd way way thatís sort of why you keep him close, silent and toing the line.  If you push him out, you canít control him.  Not that I think McGahn necessarily has an axe to grind and will turn, but heís just another loose cannon out there now to potentially get picked off by Mueller.

I donít think too many people with knowledge are actually going to throw Trump under the bus, but I think they will happily do so to Kushner or any of the Trump kids.  What will Trump do then?

When the Feds start tightening the noose, it is pretty hard to escape.  Whether Trump actually colluded or obstructed justice or not, the Fedís now have a dozen ways of getting to him.  Itís pretty much a gang prosecution/RICO act deal now.  Too many untrustworthy and unscrupulous people in Trumpís circle.  Hard to see him getting out without major, major damage although his supporters will just ignore it.



Paco

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1284 on: August 29, 2018, 07:25:16 PM »

I totally agree that he is the worlds greatest attention whore. If tomorrow, the MSM completely ignored him he would go into melt down. After all, no publicity is is worse than bad publicity. But he has social media to spew his crap. And since Twitter decided to arbitrarily censor hate speech and inflammatory rhetoric while giving the POTUS a free pass, he'll still have a platform.
I sometimes wonder if a random EMP might be the best thing in the long run for society as a whole.
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Markalot

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1285 on: August 30, 2018, 07:16:54 AM »

Don't be afraid of free speech.  In the end it's the greatest equalizer there is.  You will never get rid of people who only hear what they want to hear or who believe in grand conspiracy theories.  I don't agree with social media companies censoring accounts.  Removing all advertising or promotion, sure, but not banning unless the posts are clearly unlawful. 

As far as polling and where the country is going, take some of Trump supporters who are hearing him spout off on all this crap.  The press interviews these people and basically asks ... do you see the mistake you made you silly buffoon!  No, they aren't going to admit they made a mistake, but in the privacy of the polling booth they may indeed vote differently.

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Zafer Kaya

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1286 on: August 30, 2018, 10:27:16 AM »

I don't really care about social media companies censoring accounts.  They are private businesses.  If some people are ruining it for everyone else and they feel like it is costing them customers, by all means censor, ban, TOS.  That goes for 4 chan/8 chan, too.  If you start a thing that's intentionally dick-ish and people like it that way and they bully everyone else out, that's how they want to run their business. 

I don't think that Trump supporters feel they have made a mistake.  And they're right, they haven't.

The lies were what they told you BEFORE the election.  Like "Trump is the most LGBTQ-friendly President ever," "It's 4-D chess fools, he'll pivot," "He's a centrist."  That's stuff they tell liberals to try and make liberals look bad and seem like hypocrites.  They never actually wanted that stuff, and that's not why they voted for Trump.  Had Trump actually acted as they claimed he would, they'd have been the first ones off the bandwagon.

They voted for someone who would preserve (white) cultural America, to give the middle finger to lefties, and --in the case of the wealthy-- for massive tax cuts.  And they've gotten all that.  Trump has lied to *US*, but they don't care about that.  They love it, in fact.  Trump hasn't lied to them.  For a politician he's been very "pure" to the far right cause. 

The only thing I think that would make them turn against them is if they start to think that Trump is all talk.  He's great for pissing liberals off but is the wall actually getting built, or illegal immigrants getting mass deported?  But even then, I think for a lot of his supporters, trolling the world is a fine end game in and of itself so they won't care.  Still, I think Trump is in more danger of being primaried than he is of being defeated in a general election.

When the press interviews people hit by tariffs and they say that yes, they are getting killed by tariffs but yes they will still vote for Trump because he is fighting for "Americans," they're not refusing to admit a mistake.  They're telling you the truth.  "Americans" is just code for "White Christians."

Markalot

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1287 on: August 30, 2018, 04:19:29 PM »

Obama got elected twice.  I don't think it's as simple as you make it out to be, but no one can deny that humans in general feel more comfortable with people that look like they do. 

There was an article ... I need to find it, can't remember where I read it, but describing all the nationalistic sentiment going on in multiple countries or regions. Brexit, Caledonia,  etc.  One historian postured that people were bored and not well enough off to appreciate the value of peace.  Trump is more exciting than Obama, that's for sure.  ::)
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Markalot

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1288 on: August 30, 2018, 05:38:22 PM »

McCain's funeral is getting closer.

Trump cancels pay raises for federal workers.
Trump threatens to withdraw from the WTO. 
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daytime drinking

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1289 on: August 31, 2018, 02:53:49 PM »

it's not illegal for google and such to prop up biased news is it?  i know it's shocking, but i'm not terrible versed in the world of internet regulation news.  man, i don't want the government controlling the internet.  that's pretty short sighted.  what happens in 28 years when the republicans are no longer in power?  trump was running a sun tzu esque campaign.  but there has to be oversight of some sort.  like some sort of committee that verifies the algorithms they use or something
It's not illegal, but as others have said, it also isn't happening. For example, if you went to google and search for Trump News before his tweet went everywhere, the very first result was an article from FoxNews. You have to remember that to Trump, anything negative is biased against him. He thinks it is biased news that the Cohen guilty plea got as much press as it did, even though it was a HUGE story. You can never take anything Trump says at his word, because words don't mean anything to him. He uses them how he wants whether it is true or not.

i mean, you don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to say that it is happening.  do they have to disclose anything?  hasn't facebook even apologized for leaning left? 
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