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Author Topic: Random Political Musings  (Read 69295 times)

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dirk

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1335 on: September 25, 2018, 05:01:41 PM »

The only reason I can see for Kavanaugh still being the nominee is that Trump is all about looking strong and never looking weak. He would see Kavanaugh withdrawing as a loss for him, and that is something he will avoid at any cost. So instead, he have a guy who certainly looks like he lied to congress, and now has I believe 4 people claiming he sexually assault them, and Trump is still 100% behind him. Any reasonable person would just have him withdraw and put another ultraconservative judge up who doesn't have the potential baggage, but Trump won't do that because his entire image is built on "winning", and that wouldn't be "winning" (at least for him, for the country it probably would be a win).
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Zafer Kaya

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1336 on: September 25, 2018, 05:45:56 PM »

I understand that perspective.  Itís logical.  I think we all agree that Trump has a huge ego and never admits to being wrong.

But he also has the ability to shape his own reality.  He could pull his support of Kavanaugh, blame it all on Democrats and the establishment GOP, and be fine with it.  Remember, this is the guy who just said he had done more than any other US President.  Partly exaggerating is his style, but on some level I think he really believes that shit. 

I think to the far right, they are all in on Kavanaugh for ego reasons despite it being to their detriment and that is what is driving this.  I honestly donít think Congress knows how to handle the crazy right GOP base.  Pretty sure Trump does not give a fuck who is on the Supreme Court or Kavanaugh or what happens to him other than it might impact his ability to be President, which is the ultimate ďwinĒ fir him that he cares about.

euro60

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1337 on: September 25, 2018, 10:38:55 PM »

I haven't heard about the 4 people claiming to be sexually assaulted, meaning 2 more, but regardless, the political environment in DC has become so toxic, it's impossible to figure out what is what. My own sense is that the only way to get through to this is at the midterms in November. How does America really feel about what is going on, and do they bother to come out voting?

As an immigrant to this country coming from Belgium (where voting is mandatory, yes, you read that right), I've never understood the low turnout in elections. I became a US citizen in 2008, and haven't missed a single election, be it local, state or national. If you don't vote, don't complain.
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Zafer Kaya

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1338 on: September 25, 2018, 11:31:27 PM »

You can refuse to vote and still complain at the poor choices that were made available to you.  As long as you educate yourself on the issues.

Tons of people vote and complain about the people they voted for because they were idiots.  The elections hinge on people who voted for Obama, then somehow flipped to Trump and now somehow may flip back to Democrats.  How fucking stupid are these people?  Those are the ones to complain about.  They participated in the system, often enthusiastically, got their way, and itís still not their fault their lives suck.

There was a guy CNN just did a piece on.  His number one issue was how much he hated healthcare, and he voted for Trump because he hated Obamacare.  Then he got sick and has huge medical expenses.  Now heís going to vote Democrat.  The Democrats canít revive Obamacare or do anything to fix healthcare now.  No one can because the voters canít make up their minds.  This dude will be dead before he gets to vote again.

This country is finished.  It doesnít matter who they vote for in mid-terms, theyíre still fools with an over inflated sense of self-worth.

Paco

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1339 on: September 26, 2018, 07:04:11 PM »

Holy shit, I watched the entire presser trump gave today. This was a dumpster fire on a train wreck in the middle of a hurricane.
Lets' see if I can relay some highlights:

He called the 3 (4?) Kavanaugh accusers liars because he's been accused many times himself.
When called out for referring to the Kavanaugh accusers as con artists, he said "I've said much worse".
He talked over the women reporters and when he did let them ask a question, he dismissed them and rambled aimlessly.
He insulted a foreign reporter by calling him "Mr. Kurd"
He essentially called Canada an enemy.
He referred to the leader of Saudi Arabia as King Solomon.
He talked about his "large......brain" with a creepy long pause.
He granted the NYT a chance to ask a question and said "Say Thank You Mr. Trump"
That was after he insulted a female reporter thinking she worked for the NYT, only to have her answer "But I work for NPR"

The whole thing was surreal. SNL could devote an entire show to this one press conference.

This guy is off.the.fucking.rails.



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trixi

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1340 on: September 26, 2018, 09:14:22 PM »

My hat is off to you for being able to tolerate watching the entire thing.  Thanks for the summing up. 
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Drjohnrock

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1341 on: September 26, 2018, 10:12:14 PM »

Belgium (where voting is mandatory, yes, you read that right)


What is the penalty for not voting?  Voting is also mandatory in Australia. An online friend who lives there says the fine for not voting is hefty. 

Mandatory voting will never be the law in the US. Huge turnout in general favors Democrats, which means the Republicans would do absolutely anything to make sure voting never is mandatory. But in reality, short of a significant jail sentence, mandatory voting wouldn't work in the US--if they were allowed, banks,credit unions, etc.,  would offer savings accounts with special interest rates for people to save up for their fines for not voting.



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Markalot

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1342 on: September 27, 2018, 08:23:47 AM »

Belgium (where voting is mandatory, yes, you read that right)


What is the penalty for not voting?  Voting is also mandatory in Australia. An online friend who lives there says the fine for not voting is hefty. 

Mandatory voting will never be the law in the US. Huge turnout in general favors Democrats, which means the Republicans would do absolutely anything to make sure voting never is mandatory. But in reality, short of a significant jail sentence, mandatory voting wouldn't work in the US--if they were allowed, banks,credit unions, etc.,  would offer savings accounts with special interest rates for people to save up for their fines for not voting.

I would not be so sure mandatory voting would favor dems.  There are a lot of people who are completely checked out of politics whose vote would pretty much be random, regardless of who would really benefit them most.  Forcing someone to actively participate in government goes against what we were founded on so I don't think we will ever seem mandatory voting.  Civic rights vs civic duties. 

It's not in the constitution though, so it's not out of the question, but each state would have to pass mandatory voting laws OR the constitution would have to be amended to enforce it.  Enforcement is also interesting because the penalty, as written in the constitution, is simply loss of representation. 

2: Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age,15  and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.   affects 2

This has been enhanced with race and sex being added, but otherwise still holds.  I post this mainly for my own clarification, just to make sure there's not anything that would prevent a state from enforcing mandatory voting.
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Zafer Kaya

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1343 on: September 27, 2018, 11:19:11 AM »

So a bunch of women in my office are listening to the Kavanaugh testimony and weeping.  They haven't even started the brutal questioning yet where the Senators are going to attempt to gently imply they are lying sluts. 

So I'd say this is not going well for the GOP.

Butter

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1344 on: September 27, 2018, 11:40:24 AM »

I would not be so sure mandatory voting would favor dems.

Highest percentage of voting participants are White and over 65.

So, yeah it would.  Just from those 2 baseline stats.  Probably rather bigly.
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Zafer Kaya

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1345 on: September 27, 2018, 01:07:03 PM »

I think the net effect would probably favor Democrats over Republicans, but I don't think the impact would be as great as people might think. 

The fat slice of non-voters to me is college kids who care a lot about political issues but don't vote because they distrust government in general but also they have no-downside risk.  They don't have jobs to lose and kids to feed, and they're not paying taxes.

Not voting for them is sort of a protest against the system.  If you force them into the system, their protest is going to be to vote for outside candidates and particularly far-left outside candidates which bleeds from Democrats. 

Zafer Kaya

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1346 on: September 27, 2018, 01:32:59 PM »

What is this woman doing?  It's not trial, for either Kavanaugh or Ford, and you're not building a case.

Republicans can complain about it all they want but ultimately this is about Kavanaugh's reputation and not just his guilt or innocence in this case.

If Kavanaugh is a huge knob who drank and ton, went to parties where women were raped, and generally was an active participant in the culture but it just so happens he didn't actually rape Ford that's not really a win.

The nightmare scenario for the GOP isn't Kavanaugh being defeated.  It's Kavanaugh getting in and everyone hates him.  They seem to be steering this towards that exact outcome.

daytime drinking

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1347 on: September 27, 2018, 01:58:34 PM »

is this like, march madness for lawyers?  how can people sit thru that whole thing? 
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Zafer Kaya

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1348 on: September 27, 2018, 03:17:38 PM »

I'd say it's March Madness more for politicos than lawyers.

Zafer Kaya

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1349 on: September 27, 2018, 06:13:18 PM »

Well, I guess I would say in a normal situation Kavanaugh looks like a dick.

Does anyone really believe he never drank alcohol in high school?  He was pretty blatantly lying in response to some questions. 

But in the way things are, Kavanaugh drinking and partying his ass off and then getting away with it by lying is probably a plus to the conservative base. I donít think anyone but apparently half of Evangelical Christians would support him if they thought he did it.  But I donít think we got any closer to finding out the truth.

The fact that he got to scream at Democrats is going to galvanize his support.  Anything that pisses off liberals is a win, even if in some cases theyíre actually right to be angry.  The strategy of sticking by Kavanaugh seems to make sense in light of that.  A smooth nomination process may not get the voters to the polls so much as a chance to declare war yet again.

I feel a little bad for Collins, because she always seems to get stuck in these situations where everything rides on her precisely because sheís the only one with a somewhat open and non-partisan mind.  On the other hand, I donít feel bad for her because even though I think she is one of the people in Congress who genuinely tries to do the right thing, sheís kind of an idiot and has no backbone and is constantly suckered by her own party, which anyone in good conscience and with any guts should have have left long ago.

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