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Author Topic: Random Political Musings  (Read 83620 times)

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daytime drinking

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2012, 03:54:21 PM »

to hold people accountable means invoking race wars? 

Of course not.  Writing inflammatory racist newsletters and using white supremacy mailing lists to solicit donations as part of a "redneck outreach" strategy means invoking race wars.  And yes, Ron Paul knew all about that.





can you provide me a link?  i'm a bit tired of looking up ron paul myths to debunk
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Butter

  • Suffering from early-onset douchiness
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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2012, 04:35:00 PM »

Not as tired as I am of seeing his racist ass every 4 years.
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Zafer Kaya

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2012, 04:47:42 PM »

can you provide me a link?  i'm a bit tired of looking up ron paul myths to debunk

Call me nuts, but I have a sneaky feeling you know all about this Ron Paul "myth." 

So if you feel like it needs debunking, pretty sure you can do that without needing a link.

Buzzstein

  • I have no title
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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2012, 06:22:53 PM »

Even without factoring in all the racist stuff, I think he's nuts. That's great being honest and wanting to combat government corruption, but I don't like his ideas about doing away with Federal agencies and programs that I think are valuable to society.
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Zafer Kaya

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2012, 01:07:54 AM »

I do not get the libertarian hard-on for the gold standard.  It makes no sense at all and is not even consistent with internal libertarian views.  And it's not really even important.  It's just some whacko outdated and disproven economic theory some crazy Austrian came up with long ago that somewhere along the line some libertarian  glommed on to it and it became part of the platform.  The amount of time and effort spent on forwarding the gold standard is just crazy-stupid.

It's not like the government is dictating what you use for currency.  If you want to go down to 7-11 and buy some Big Gulps with beaver pelts, there is nothing stopping you.  Take all your cash and buy gold.  See if McDonald's will take it. 

It doesn't stop the government from running a debt, either.  Sure you can insist that if the government wants to put $1 of currency in the system they have to have $1 in gold.  Then the government will just issue a $1 bond instead.  Then they don't have to have that $1 in gold until the bond comes due.  And then when the bond comes due they will pay you $1 in gold buy issuing a $1.50 bond.  I mean seriously, do you really think you can eliminate letters of credit?

If there is a gold standard, that means that all of your paper currency is only good so far as the government promises to back up your note in gold.  What happens if one day the government says "Yeah, you know what?  Screw it.  We're keeping all the gold to ourselves."   Essentially you are allowing the government to hold 100% of your assets in gold while giving you a flimsy piece of paper (or really just a bunch of binary data).  If you don't trust the government, why in hell would you let them hold your gold for you on a promise?

daytime drinking

  • City Elder
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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2012, 10:17:43 AM »

can you provide me a link?  i'm a bit tired of looking up ron paul myths to debunk

Call me nuts, but I have a sneaky feeling you know all about this Ron Paul "myth." 

So if you feel like it needs debunking, pretty sure you can do that without needing a link.

you think he wrote those newsletters?  i'm well aware that you probably aren't, but i'm going to give my man the benefit of the doubt
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Zafer Kaya

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2012, 05:26:57 PM »

I don't think Ron Paul personally wrote the newsletters but I think Ron Paul knew what was in them and approved them. 

daytime drinking

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2012, 09:00:38 AM »

it certainly would be out of character for him to lie about not reading them
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dirk

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2012, 10:40:00 AM »

Not reall,y because at the end of the day, he is still a politician.  His job is to try and get elected.  All the "oh he is completely honest and forthright" is crap.  He tailors his opinions to try and get support, just like every politician.  It's just that he thinks he can get more support by going for the whack-a-doo vote.  And yes, he knew about the news letters. http://gawker.com/5880015/ron-paul-knew-all-about-his-beloved-racist-newsletters
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Zafer Kaya

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2012, 11:12:50 AM »

Yeah, exactly.  I think it's possible Paul didn't actually read them but that doesn't let him off the hook, in my view.   Because if he let someone write those newsletters and publish them without reading them, then whoever wrote them was someone close to Paul who he trusted.  The prevailing opinion of those close to Paul seems to be that Lew Rockwell wrote the newsletters.  Which makes sense, because Lew Rockwell is a major shithead who has written lots of articles in a similar vein and style to the newsletters.  But Lew Rockwell was Paul's campaign manager.   So why would Rockwell suddenly publish a bunch of crap to make Paul look like a racist?  And if he DID do that, wouldn't Paul absolutely know who it was?  So at the very least he's protecting a racist who totally screwed him over, but I think he absolutely knew what was going on with those newsletters. 

And I don't think there is much question that Paul is personally very, very far right.   Paul endorsed Chuck Baldwin for President in 2008, and Baldwin is endorsing Paul. How can a supposed libertarian endorse a candidate that does not believe in separation of church and state?   Perhaps he wouldn't govern as a right-winger, but why take that chance when there appear to be other libertarians who honestly have no problem with gays, blacks, and non-Christians instead of someone who will grudgingly allow them to exist so long as they stay out of his face.

daytime drinking

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2012, 12:07:42 PM »

Not reall,y because at the end of the day, he is still a politician.  His job is to try and get elected.  All the "oh he is completely honest and forthright" is crap.  He tailors his opinions to try and get support, just like every politician.  It's just that he thinks he can get more support by going for the whack-a-doo vote.  And yes, he knew about the news letters. http://gawker.com/5880015/ron-paul-knew-all-about-his-beloved-racist-newsletters

first off, ron paul will never become president.  and i'm not necessarily sure it's his intention.  imo, he's running for president solely to get his message out.  nobody running for prez (with a legitimate shot at winning) is going to promise things he can deliver.  so they pander.  they say the right things, they wear makeup.   ron paul doesn't tailor his opinions.  people tailor their opinions to his.  jon stewart even said that he's one guy (essentially) that he'd never have to fact check, cuz he never crosses his words.  he's not like every politician.  

i believe him when he says he "should have policed those documents better."  besides that, notice how many of the whistle blowers are no longer fans of paul?  you can take that as they truly didn't believe in his ideals, or they were pissed off at him for some reason.  not sure exactly i'm going to say the following, but let's say he read a majority, if not all of the documents, our society has a difficult time talking about race relations.  and sometimes we don't like to believe statistics.  as far as mlk is concerned, he wouldn't be the first person to allege wrongdoings on his behalf.  

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dirk

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2012, 01:05:19 PM »

So it is more believable that Ron Paul and his people put out a newsletter that he never read, and no one, not staffers, friends, or acquaintances, ever read the thing and said to him "Ron, what are you doing with this newsletter, since it is completely racist and putting out articles about race wars and conspiracy theories" and now people who worked for him and at the time were his friends are lying about his involvement than to think he was involved and is now rethinking doing it and lying about it because people are calling him a racist for the things in the newsletter. Occam's razor sure points clearly to one of those 2 scenarios.  I'll let you decide which one.
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daytime drinking

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #27 on: January 31, 2012, 10:41:12 PM »

you have to be friends in a business relationship?  it's a non issue for me, but it is for you.  if i remember your particular political leanings from the woxy boards, you weren't right following.  so it makes sense you want to label the man a racist.  just any dirt, no matter if the man is what we need. and we need substance and not rhetoric.  it's the price you pay to be in public office. 
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Zafer Kaya

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #28 on: February 01, 2012, 12:12:40 AM »

Ron Paul has changed his stance on those newsletters at least three or four times over the years.  First it was that the newsletters were his, but the passages were "taken out of context."  Then it was that he would own up to what was in the newsletters because his name was on them, and that's all he was going to say about it.  Now he says that he almost never read them.

It's not surprising that people don't believe him.  Especially when he keeps using White Supremacist mailing lists, taking checks from Stormfront, endorsing Constitution Party candidates or even ending up on the Constitution Party ballot himself.  The newsletters are the smoking gun, but there's other evidence to back it up as well.

It honestly doesn't matter that much to me whether Paul is a racist or extremely socially conservative.  Because to me, you can be as personally racist or religious as you want if you keep the government out of it.  So my concerns about Paul are not so much about his alleged racism, but whether or not he is a true libertarian or merely a Tea Party/far-right person masquerading as a libertarian.  And Paul has always played coy about it.  Which is why all of his problems are of his own making.  He's been totally consistent all the years about being a fiscal hawk, and I don't think anyone questions him there.  On everything outside of the budget, he's flirted with both the conservatives and the libertarians and so now no one really knows what he stands for. 

Maybe it's time the Libertarian Party split up into two factions.  The "Get the hell out of my face, and I'll be happy to get out of yours because I don't like you anyway" Paleolibertarian group, and the "If we all rise up against The Man, we can form our own hippie commune utopias" classic liberal libertarian group. 

Zafer Kaya

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #29 on: February 01, 2012, 11:50:14 AM »

A sad ending to a very odd local political race.

Matthew Geary was a prosecutor for Henrico County who was running for Commonwealth's attorney in Henrico.  Henrico County is about as mainstream Republican as they come, and therefore a GOP prosecutor was an ideal candidate.  Moreover, Geary was generally considered a pretty competent guy.  Liberals didn't have much of a problem with him either.  In fact he'd been working as chief deputy for the Richmond Commonwealth Attorney's office under a liberal.

So the guy was considered a local, generally well-liked, had a solid GOP background, and the experience for the job.  And at 42, he was considered a bit of an up-and-comer although it was unclear if he wanted to enter the realm of "real" politics.  But the Henrico position was one that he'd been pegged for for some time.  He had gotten the endorsement of the Henrico police the very minute he declared.  He was such a shoo-in for victory that up until July or August he was running unopposed. 

And then something weird happened.  In late July or August, it was revealed that he'd had an extra-marital affair a year earlier.  According to Geary, his wife knew about it and he'd also told the local GOP committee when he first decided to run.  About a week later, the Henrico GOP voted unanimously to withdraw their endorsement and ask him to stop down.  And then Eric Cantor (in the midst of his budget battle) for whatever reason stuck his nose into local politics and trashed Geary and told him to withdraw as well.   

At the same time, Bill Janis who was serving in the House of Delegates decided to step down and run for the Henrico position.  Janis is a lawyer, but had no prosecutorial experience at all and had previously expressed no interest in the position.  Janis couldn't run as a Republican because Geary already had the GOP nomination, so he ran as an independent.  And the Henrico GOP, instead of endorsing their own candidate, starting putting all their money behind Janis.  He raised like $100k in three weeks.

This is how it ends:

Neither one of them won the election.  A Democrat, Shannon Taylor entered the election in late August and won it because Geary and Janis split the votes. 

Bill Janis came in second.  But because Janis took one for the team, so in January the GOP paid him back when the Governor appointed him Deputy Commissioner to the Department of Veterans Services.

Geary came in third.  In the last few days and after the results were coming in, it was obvious that Geary was not going to win and that he had no future in any elected office he was pretty much all but formally endorsing Taylor.  Taylor is completely qualified for the position, having been a prosecutor for some time.  But also Taylor and Geary knew each other from law school and had semi-worked together because one was a prosecutor in Richmond and the other in bordering Henrico.  A couple of days ago, Geary shot himself.

No one has been able to figure out exactly what happened to make the GOP suddenly go to such insane measures to prevent Geary from winning what is mostly a non-political position in a local office that most people don't know or care about.
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