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Author Topic: Random Political Musings  (Read 97504 times)

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Markalot

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1605 on: July 09, 2019, 08:58:10 AM »

Bah,  I'm 56 and I don't think this country is in decline, that's generational talk.  Democracies can be really really ugly, but sometimes it's the uglies exposed that moves things forwards.  As a matter of fact it's usually only having the worst happen that moves things forwards.  You will never have deep thought by more then 50% of society, and that's assuming anyone above average intelligence is willing to really think things through. 

And what is the worst anyway?  Some gasbag in the Whitehouse doing stupid shit?   

Let's talk about aversion to thought why don't we?  Name the horrible things Trump has done to us that cannot be reversed by the next president.  Include how these horrible things will damage our position in the world forever, in a way we can never recover.  If you are also critical of previous administrations then please don't limit yourself to Trump.   Include discussion of how the new world leader will become leader and how they (one country, group of countries, whatever) will maintain that leadership through economic, militaristic, or some other type of power.  Perhaps they're just super attractive and offer the best hookers and blow? 

Trump derangement syndrome is REAL.  :D



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Butter

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1606 on: July 09, 2019, 10:19:50 AM »

Let's talk about aversion to thought why don't we?  Name the horrible things Trump has done to us that cannot be reversed by the next president.  Include how these horrible things will damage our position in the world forever, in a way we can never recover.  If you are also critical of previous administrations then please don't limit yourself to Trump.   Include discussion of how the new world leader will become leader and how they (one country, group of countries, whatever) will maintain that leadership through economic, militaristic, or some other type of power.  Perhaps they're just super attractive and offer the best hookers and blow?

His term isn't over yet.  If it comes down to losing in 2020 gracefully or trying to pull some stupid shit to stay in power, including starting a war, or refusing to step down, I vote on stupid shit.

As of now, one immediate thing that comes to mind (that is not the only thing), is that he has (not single-handedly) irreparably damaged media's role in the democracy.  It has basically been reduced to each outlet being "for" or "against" with anything for being cheered and anything against being waved away.
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Markalot

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1607 on: July 09, 2019, 10:58:34 AM »



His term isn't over yet.  If it comes down to losing in 2020 gracefully or trying to pull some stupid shit to stay in power, including starting a war, or refusing to step down, I vote on stupid shit.

As of now, one immediate thing that comes to mind (that is not the only thing), is that he has (not single-handedly) irreparably damaged media's role in the democracy.  It has basically been reduced to each outlet being "for" or "against" with anything for being cheered and anything against being waved away.

Is that you talking or something the media has claimed ... ie Trump reducing the role of media?  Politicians hate the media, they always have and they always will. 

There is no way he can pull stupid shit to stay in power past a 2nd term.  Now if he loses this coming election and claims fraud, while ironic, there's still very little chance of him succeeding.  The media will have a field day because ratings and $$$ will be through the roof, so you bet the story will be pondered, even if there's no real chance.

Constitutionally though, the only way to ignore the results of a presidential election when you're not term limited is to have the house of representatives choose.  As long as the dems are in power there's no risk of that.  Trump can wave his arms in the air all he wants but once noon hits on January 20th he's no longer president.  No swearing in required, no fanfare, nothing.

The terms of the President and Vice President shall end at noon on the 20th day of January, and the terms of Senators and Representatives at noon on the 3d day of January, of the years in which such terms would have ended if this article had not been ratified; and the terms of their successors shall then begin.


He must take an oath, but it can be done in some back room somewhere.  :)   


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Butter

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1608 on: July 09, 2019, 11:46:25 AM »

"Everybody knows there were millions of illegals voting for my opponent, so it's clear that I won.  I may need some help to stay in office though, so if any of my supporters wanted to show up at the White House with some guns, I sure couldn't stop them."

Also, I can't tell if you're just being obtuse in addressing my point about the media or intentionally dismissive.
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Kwyjibo

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1609 on: July 09, 2019, 12:26:11 PM »

Well, this all assumes that he isn't re-elected outright, popular vote or otherwise.  Which, sadly isn't a foregone conclusion.
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Markalot

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1610 on: July 09, 2019, 01:34:52 PM »

"Everybody knows there were millions of illegals voting for my opponent, so it's clear that I won.  I may need some help to stay in office though, so if any of my supporters wanted to show up at the White House with some guns, I sure couldn't stop them."

Also, I can't tell if you're just being obtuse in addressing my point about the media or intentionally dismissive.

Dismissive, I don't think it's true.  I think it's a narrative the media wants you and I to believe.  What reduced media's clout is the internet.  We're still going through information overload, in my opinion, due to the fact we can go anywhere for news.  Unfortunately that means half of the people will go to a place where someone tells them what they want to hear.  Confirmation bias.  Trump has nothing to do with this and regardless of who is president the problem will get worse before it gets better.  This is a good thing, and in the end we'll all be better consumers of news.

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Butter

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1611 on: July 09, 2019, 01:57:09 PM »

Trump has nothing to do with this and regardless of who is president the problem will get worse before it gets better.  This is a good thing, and in the end we'll all be better consumers of news.

I don't agree.  Literal truth is actually in question for a large portion of the population every day because he says that the media is biased against him.  It is drawing severe lines around the media that won't be easily erased.
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Zafer Kaya

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1612 on: July 09, 2019, 02:40:43 PM »

And what is the worst anyway?  Some gasbag in the Whitehouse doing stupid shit? 

Nope.  Trump is certainly accelerating the process and may have already taken us to the point where recovery is impossible.  But in the end, he's only a symptom.

That's why I disagree with just about everything you say.  You view the problem as just Trump being a bad President who we can vote out of office and fix things.  The problem is how Trump got into office in the first place.

Markalot

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1613 on: July 09, 2019, 02:44:37 PM »


I don't agree.  Literal truth is actually in question for a large portion of the population every day because he says that the media is biased against him.  It is drawing severe lines around the media that won't be easily erased.

We'll have to disagree, and hopefully we can see what actually happens once Trump is gone.

We made it through Nixon, we'll make it through Trump.  Most of the times when we're predicting FUD it actually turns out for the better.  The media reports that Trump tweets that the media is out to get him.  I have always felt, and still feel, that the majority of Americans are not all that polarized.  The very vocal 20% on each side is what makes the news every day, and it makes the news because riling people up makes money.   Have you tried to find examples of what portion of the population is confused by the truth?   See where I'm going with this?  Have you tried to find opposing evidence, or just looked to confirm what you believe?  No answer required, I'm not sure I can give an honest answer to that question.

This is from last year.  AP story.  https://apnews.com/2761a6d6cedc4b91b739a6db93a3a236

Here's a poll that tried to deal with the issue directly.
https://www.journalism.org/2018/06/18/distinguishing-between-factual-and-opinion-statements-in-the-news/

The problem is real.
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Markalot

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1614 on: July 09, 2019, 02:47:27 PM »

Nope.  Trump is certainly accelerating the process and may have already taken us to the point where recovery is impossible.  But in the end, he's only a symptom.

That's why I disagree with just about everything you say.  You view the problem as just Trump being a bad President who we can vote out of office and fix things.  The problem is how Trump got into office in the first place.

Fix, no, but you still have to come up with who takes over for us.  Game it out, so to speak. 
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Butter

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1615 on: July 09, 2019, 03:18:50 PM »

Have you tried to find opposing evidence, or just looked to confirm what you believe?

I also don't go around looking for refutations of the Law of Gravity.
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Zafer Kaya

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1616 on: July 09, 2019, 04:39:19 PM »

Nope.  Trump is certainly accelerating the process and may have already taken us to the point where recovery is impossible.  But in the end, he's only a symptom.

That's why I disagree with just about everything you say.  You view the problem as just Trump being a bad President who we can vote out of office and fix things.  The problem is how Trump got into office in the first place.

Fix, no, but you still have to come up with who takes over for us.  Game it out, so to speak.

No.  You still don't get it.  Someone other than Trump can buy us some time, but they can't actually solve things, because ultimately the problem is not political in nature.

If we can hold out 5-10 years until the boomers die, then maybe we have a chance.  But even then, it's not going to be the same.  It'll be more a matter of us adjusting to the new global culture and our place in it.  The whole idea of trying to preserve the US as a dominant leader and American Exceptionalism in general is terrible in so many ways.

Markalot

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1617 on: July 09, 2019, 06:17:53 PM »

We can hold on otherwise WHO will take over? It's not a question of if we're in a rough spot right now, it's a matter of who takes over and how?  We keep marching on, regardless. 

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Zafer Kaya

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1618 on: July 09, 2019, 07:44:20 PM »

It doesnít matter who takes over.  The problem is not with leadership, itís with the citizens and culture of this country.  No politician can fix that

Markalot

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1619 on: July 10, 2019, 07:20:55 AM »

It doesn’t matter who takes over.  The problem is not with leadership, it’s with the citizens and culture of this country.  No politician can fix that

I see that as narrow minded.  You think other countries, those in a position to 'take over' are any better?  We, make that all liberal societies, are in a constant state of course correction.  Change is incremental, usually slow, but constant.  You must believe we are taking 1 step forward and 2 back, I believe 2 steps forward 1 back, otherwise we'd have never gotten here.  Everytime we take a step back some people lose their shit.

I think you know this, I think you're trolling.  ;)  But by all means, if you think our society is doomed to be what the media tells us it is, carry on.  My voice is not out there, nor is anyone I know.  Maybe I'll get that CNN interview tomorrow and I can relate just how normal most citizens are, and the fact most are not paying attention to government, right or wrong, unless it effects them directly.

Bah, that's dull, no ratings, let's go to the flat earthers instead. 

https://www.livescience.com/62220-millennials-flat-earth-belief.html

Also, you can't answer the question who will take over.   It's fundamental to the belief that somehow we will relinquish this leadership role. 
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