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Author Topic: Random Political Musings  (Read 83599 times)

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euro60

  • City Elder
  • Posts: 4,154
Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1635 on: July 15, 2019, 12:13:32 AM »

I'm reading these exchanges and I just go "wow"

I've left the political theater for my own mind's sake, to be honest. I don't listen to NPR's Morning Edition anymore, and instead listen to the local classical music station on my way into work. I don't like, ok, I despise, what is going on in Washington DC. My only thought at this point is that I will show up for every election that comes my way, and execute my constitutional right to vote. If it turns out that this country wants to re-elect Trump, so be it. I'll do my part and vote my way.

A partner of mine in the law firm asked me recently if I wanted to contribute to Rob Portman's fundraiser. I simply sent him a link to this:

https://www.businessinsider.com/barbara-bush-no-longer-republican-trump-era-2019-3

And that about sums it up for me. My law partner's response was "ay, ok"
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"A blind faith in authority is the worst enemy of truth" - Albert Einstein (1901)

The Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra is one of Cincinnati's underappreciated treasures

Zafer Kaya

  • City Elder
  • Posts: 3,656
Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1636 on: July 15, 2019, 12:38:37 AM »

I think that America is in decline because too much of the country still believes in outdated models of hegemony.  And because we think weíre just entitled to shit.

What does it mean for America to be number one in the world anymore?  Itís a global market place, and global marketplaces are competitions amongst multinational companies, not arbitrary geographical boundaries.  Is Apple truly an American company, or Google?  What makes us number one?  Our educational system isnít that great, out lifespans are no longer increasing, our infrastructure is slipping?  Like what is the measure we use to rank countries?

This first bit is not that big a problem for me.  If in the end we define ourselves by Facebook groups instead of physical location, it doesnít matter as long as people are doing okay.

The second bit is the problem.  Which is this bullshit American Exceptionalism where we somehow believe that God or some other mechanism has ordained us to be number one, and furthermore that everyone else should THANK us for being number one.  Like the natural order of the world is US #1, then other people and my god who are these disrespectful people that wonít accept the way things are?

Again, this is beyond party politics.  Itís a problem with Americans in general, and itís just human nature.  We have become spoiled.  Like say tariffs against China.  The right is convinced that tariffs will hurt China more than us economically... and they might actually be right about that.  But, what they miss is that China can take the economic pain better than we can.  The rural/blue collar Trump people are still living lifestyles way better than the poorest people in China or 5% of the people in third world countries and they are freaking the fuck out. 

We have both an outmoded view of the world and an overconfidence in our belief that we can be the leaders of this outmoded world that no longer exists.  So every thing that follows from there is a disaster.

See to me, if we are stupid enough to elect Trump are we really qualified to be the worldís policeman? In a world where it is Trump trying to keep the supposed good guys on top with an assist from his good buddy Boris Johnson against Putin and Xi Jinping... my money is not on us.

notoriouspbake

  • Citizen
  • Posts: 369
Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1637 on: July 15, 2019, 09:56:32 AM »

not that it'll make any difference, but i did report trump's racist tweets yesterday. made me feel better.

all i can do is vote. and i'll be highly surprised if the republican party can support policies that would make me consider voting for them ever again. i used to take time and research the candidates and would vote for the occasional republican; doubtful i'll ever do that again. i'm voting straight democrat tickets for the foreseeable future; not because i find everything democrat is all wine and roses, but simply because it's the only way to break the gop stranglehold on power.

it shouldn't matter whoever that democrats run against trump. a democrat leaning voter with any measure of conscience after watching 4 years of trump should vote against him. if his presidency doesn't get those people out to vote against him, how can it matter who is running against him?

and i'm not suggesting democrats are the best thing ever, but they're not trump. any voter who votes third party or stays home to show dissatisfaction with the democrat candidate is, in reality, casting a vote for trump. i'm not sure what else can be done to convince those voters to get out. unicorn candidates do not exist.
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Markalot

  • Citizen
  • Posts: 353
Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1638 on: July 15, 2019, 09:56:42 AM »

For me American Exceptionalism is the fact that many in the US chose to be here, which made us great.  This is American Exceptionalism as the reality, not as the phrase co-opted by whoever wants to claim they know why.  This 'exceptionalism' requires robust immigration to stay true, and also equates quite nicely with your spoiled view, because yes, we are spoiled.  That's my belief anyway, is it true?  /shrug 

So my presidential votes over the years are as follows.  I've listed this before but since I'm now a neocon maybe I need to repeat it.  It's one thing to have an ideology, it's quite another to only vote based on it. 

Reagan
Bush I
Perot (charts!) -- with what I know now this would have been Bush I
Perot (don't ask) -- as above, probably Clinton but maybe Dole?  Really not sure, I was not a fan of Clinton
Bush II
Kerry (this one is interesting, it might be Bush II if I had a do-over but Kerry, while a bad candidate, was not that bad))
Obama (this would have easily been McCain if not for Palin)
Obama
Clinton (I still don't see the Clintons as very liberal)

Fingers crossed that my next vote will be for Biden because I can't imagine voting for any of the other dems ... maybe Harris, but probably not.  I honestly feel like the other dems running will tank the economy and set us back even further. 

« Last Edit: July 15, 2019, 09:59:38 AM by Markalot »
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-- Mark

euro60

  • City Elder
  • Posts: 4,154
Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1639 on: July 15, 2019, 11:04:40 PM »

As a running joke (but not really), I always tell people "hey you wanna know who's gonna win the presidential elections, I know! I always vote for the losing candidate!"

2008: John McCain (RIP, what a great man)
3012: Mitch Romney
2016: Hillary

So based on that sad track record, Trump will be re-elected. Hey US, please prove me wrong!!!!!!

I became a US citizen in 2008 (while maintaining my Belgian citizenship--and I vote there too, but that's another story)

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"A blind faith in authority is the worst enemy of truth" - Albert Einstein (1901)

The Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra is one of Cincinnati's underappreciated treasures

euro60

  • City Elder
  • Posts: 4,154
Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1640 on: July 15, 2019, 11:09:13 PM »


Obama (this would have easily been McCain if not for Palin)

surprised that you voted based on a Vice Presidential nominee.... that would never enter my mind. It's all about the top line for me.
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"A blind faith in authority is the worst enemy of truth" - Albert Einstein (1901)

The Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra is one of Cincinnati's underappreciated treasures

dirk

  • City Elder
  • Posts: 1,444
Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1641 on: July 16, 2019, 07:12:15 AM »


Obama (this would have easily been McCain if not for Palin)

surprised that you voted based on a Vice Presidential nominee.... that would never enter my mind. It's all about the top line for me.
I think most people think the same way you do (myself included), but Palin was just such a terrible pick and so out there making waves showing how terrible she was that you couldn't really ignore her. Usually the VP is a fairly quiet, policy minded pick so they don't get a lot of attention. Palin was constantly trying to get in the spotlight and continually showing exactly how unqualified she was for the job, which not only reflected poorly on McCain and showed how much the GOP was controlling him (as she was a pick he would not normally make on his own), but also worried people because McCain wasn't in the best of health and she would be next in line.
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Markalot

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1642 on: July 16, 2019, 07:24:02 AM »

Palin shook my confidence in McCain.  It's the only time I've ever let a veep decide how I vote.  I mean there was Dan Quayle and I was a lot younger, but I didn't see Quayle as such a bad pick.  Palin though, horrible choice and made me doubt McCain's ability to make good decisions.   I still admire McCain, but I'm not sure he had what was needed to be President. 
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-- Mark

notoriouspbake

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1643 on: July 16, 2019, 08:52:14 AM »

makes me wonder about the vp. why not take the two top delegates at the conventions? would a clinton/sanders ticket have done any better?
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Zafer Kaya

  • City Elder
  • Posts: 3,656
Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1644 on: July 16, 2019, 09:34:11 AM »

Sanders was a left wing Palin.

All he ever had to do was show up, act the kindly old granddad, get the kids and the hippies energized, and Clinton wins the election.  Instead he decided to harshly attack the establishment.  And instead of accepting his defeat, he stayed in the race and excused everyone of cheating, etc. By the time the convention came around, there was no way you could have put Sanders and Clinton on the same ticket. 

It was fucking stupid.  Sanders accused Clinton of being a stoolie for the 1% because she proposed a $12 living wage instead of $14.  Can you imagine getting even $.01 increase in minimum wage in that Congress?  Free college tuition for all was the wall that Mexico would pay for.

dirk

  • City Elder
  • Posts: 1,444
Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1645 on: July 16, 2019, 12:01:14 PM »

makes me wonder about the vp. why not take the two top delegates at the conventions? would a clinton/sanders ticket have done any better?
I don't think that would work. You can't take someone who was fighting to be in charge and then just ask them to be second in command with no real power and have them accept it (especially in a close race). And usually the people really invested in the primary will vote for the eventual winner, even if they supported someone else, so they wouldn't gain a lot from it.
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Gown removed carelessly. Head, less so. - Joss Whedon

Zafer Kaya

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1646 on: July 16, 2019, 03:40:29 PM »

So see now you have this interesting question.

Trump said some blatantly racist shit, and of course rather than apologize he doubled down. There's no other way to interpret it.  I'm definitely not a fan of AOC, Tlaib, Pressley, or Ilhan but that's kind of the point.  They're controversial figures who you can harsh on-- particularly if you're conservative-- for any number of things other than questioning their heritage.  And 100% Trump doesn't say this to a white guy of European descent.

His followers love it precisely because it was racist.  The GOP as usual tries to act like it was no big deal.  I mean, it's just a tweet.

Should the rest of us just move on?  After all, it's not unconstitutional to be racist.  There's no policy implications to what he said. 

If you think Trump is just a jackass who unfortunately happens to be President, probably you move on.  But if like me, you think Trump is merely a figurehead for a larger cultural war I think you have to keep talking about this.  It's an open declaration that 40% of the country defines America as "white."  I find that way more significant and chilling than Trump being a jackass.

euro60

  • City Elder
  • Posts: 4,154
Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1647 on: July 16, 2019, 10:55:02 PM »

Great points, ZK.

Bottom line: qll will be revealed in 16 months from now. What does this country really stand for? I may be optimistic or naive, but I think there will he a huge rebuke, with not only a Dem president, but also the Dems taking over the Senate (as the lay of the Senate elections are MUCH different in the Senate races than they were in 2018).
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"A blind faith in authority is the worst enemy of truth" - Albert Einstein (1901)

The Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra is one of Cincinnati's underappreciated treasures

Markalot

  • Citizen
  • Posts: 353
Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1648 on: July 17, 2019, 08:01:14 AM »

Does anyone really question if Trump is a racist?  While the racist angle makes the best news, the real offense is telling American Citizens to go home, 3 of which were born HERE.  We know all this about him though, there's nothing new to report.  If I was in charge of PR for congress I would be telling them to calmly deadpan the same question whenever the camera is pointing at them.

Why is Trump asking Americans to go back home?  Dude makes no sense, sounds crazy. 

You know how I feel about robust immigration, and Trump is positively anti-American in his sentiment about people that don't look like him going home.  Yea, it's racism, but yet it's also so much more, and so much wrong. 
« Last Edit: July 17, 2019, 08:43:44 AM by Markalot »
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Zafer Kaya

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #1649 on: July 17, 2019, 01:58:00 PM »

You can't separate the two issues.  He is telling American citizens to "go home" because in his mind, they're not real American citizens.  And that has everything to do with their race.  He doesn't say that about Biden, Warren, Pelosi, etc.  But yes, I also agree it's part of a larger issue of Trump just being a complete assclown in every way.

But see, I don't think you can get to the issue of why Trump is asking Americans to go back "home" without addressing the issue of what it means to be American. 
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