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Author Topic: Random Political Musings  (Read 29544 times)

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euro60

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #840 on: February 22, 2017, 10:38:53 PM »

-- I totally disagree that those who have come to come to the US illegally should have a path to US citizenship (and yes, I do realize that this mainly applies to the millions of Mexicans already here)

But it doesn't.  Most of the people that come here illegally come from deeper in South America, not Mexico.

That is just not true. The majority of the 11 million or so illegal/undocumented immigrants in this country are from Mexico. To be exact: 52% (according to what I found out on a quick internet search)

As to those that came from "deeper" Central and South America, if they are fleeing deplorable (drug)war-like conditions from places like Honduras and Guatemala (just to name those), they should be granted refugee status and be allowed to stay.

Just to reiterate my point, I am not advocating massive deportation of the 11 million illegal immigrants (one extreme), but neither do I feel they should somehow magically be granted US citizenship (the other extreme). Why can't we just let things be how they are?
« Last Edit: February 22, 2017, 10:48:07 PM by euro60 »
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Kwyjibo

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #841 on: February 23, 2017, 10:44:07 AM »


That is just not true. The majority of the 11 million or so illegal/undocumented immigrants in this country are from Mexico. To be exact: 52% (according to what I found out on a quick internet search)

As to those that came from "deeper" Central and South America, if they are fleeing deplorable (drug)war-like conditions from places like Honduras and Guatemala (just to name those), they should be granted refugee status and be allowed to stay.

Just to reiterate my point, I am not advocating massive deportation of the 11 million illegal immigrants (one extreme), but neither do I feel they should somehow magically be granted US citizenship (the other extreme). Why can't we just let things be how they are?

We are talking about two different things.  Most of the people that enter illegally do not come from Mexico.  You're saying Mexicans make up the majority who are here illegally.  There's a difference: people that knowingly come here illegally, and people that came legally and over stayed.  Most of the Mexicans here illegally fall into the latter category.

There's a place for some portion of each group to have a path to citizenship, in my mind.  The folks that come in illegally as refugess, we're failing them, and by all means give them a path.  People that come, and contribute, but over stay, again, I say give them a path.  People that come illegally just to bypass the system, or because they're criminals, round those fuckers up.  People that overstay and don't contribute to society, boot them too.

This is malum prohibitum, immigrating here from Mexico is completely within the spirit of our culture and heritage, but somehow or other, our systems have evolved to a point that makes immigration more restrictive than it needs to be, arbitrarily.  They're here.  Their lives are here.  They live, work, and exist as Americans.  It does not fix anything to ignore them, and it benefits everyone to work with them.

I'm with ZK.  Ignoring them makes no sense at all, it solves nothing. 
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euro60

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #842 on: March 02, 2017, 08:58:15 AM »

So.... AG Jeff Sessions met with the Russian Ambassador, twice, last year, but "forgot" about that when asked directly on point during his confirmation hearings in January? Meaning we have a certified liar at the head of the Justice Department. Just what we need to "make America great again". Lie, deny, "forget" and lie some more.
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"A blind faith in authority is the worst enemy of truth" - Albert Einstein (1901)

The Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra is one of Cincinnati's underappreciated treasures

Kwyjibo

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #843 on: March 02, 2017, 09:48:13 AM »

Our president can be proven a liar on nearly a daily basis.
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Zafer Kaya

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #844 on: May 07, 2017, 09:42:06 PM »

Go France.  At least some country still has some sense.

Disgusting how many Trump supporters were rooting for LePen.  But they're not racists, no.  They just want someone to help them out.  By electing a dude who just fucked them over with healthcare, cut all the funding to stop drug use in their communities, and gave the rich a tax break at their expense.

Exactly how was Trump ever like the rural lower middle class whites?  And what did he ever believably propose that helped them.  The only thing they have in common was bigotry. 

I blame myself.  If only I had been more tolerant of bigotry and stupidity.   I should have understood how torturous it was for them every second of their lives to have to live in a country with me in it.   

euro60

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #845 on: May 07, 2017, 10:33:26 PM »

Go France.  At least some country still has some sense.
Hear hear. Great result for France.

Now the hard work starts... France needs serious reforms. Hollande tried (a bit) and never succeeded. Will Macron fare better? Remains to be seen. I'm guessing the unions will blockade once again much needed reforms.
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"A blind faith in authority is the worst enemy of truth" - Albert Einstein (1901)

The Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra is one of Cincinnati's underappreciated treasures

daytime drinking

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #846 on: May 10, 2017, 11:16:31 AM »

i don't know all the particulars, but isn't he effectively ending the steaming pile of success that is the war on drugs?
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Zafer Kaya

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #847 on: May 10, 2017, 01:38:02 PM »

Who?  Macron or Trump?

Trump is not ending the War on Drugs, are you shitting me?  Not with Sessions as AG.

Trump cutting funding the Drug Czar.  Which originally was part of the War on Drugs thing but has morphed over the years, especially under Obama.  Now the ONDCP is basically two two programs.  One is the Drug Free Communities thing which works on the demand/prevention side and was more of a focus for Obama.  The other program is the Massive Crackdown on Shitty Drug Sales Areas (I forget actual name) which is the supply side, going after drug dealers.  So that's arguably "War on Drugs."

But I think the "War on Drugs" is also, if not mainly about other countries.  Like we are fighting at War on a fictional country called "Drugs".  So like giving countries foreign aid to stop drug trade, securing our borders to keep traffickers out, harsh penalties on traffickers and deportation, etc.  We do these kind of dirty things because we have to, to win this "War." 

daytime drinking

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #848 on: May 13, 2017, 10:19:04 AM »

i get it.  you're probably right.  sessions is the evil side sick.  isn't trump at least cutting the fat?  i have a hard time caring though about issues anymore.  i'm more into local politics.  i probably shouldn't have even responded 
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Kwyjibo

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #849 on: May 15, 2017, 09:43:56 AM »

isn't trump at least cutting the fat?

No, he isn't.  He hasn't accomplished a thing.  And besides that, rather than drain the swamp he's filling every available job with a banker or a lobbyist, the very people he railed about in his campaign.

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Zafer Kaya

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #850 on: May 15, 2017, 09:57:59 AM »

Trump just redirected the money from social spending programs towards defense and the wall.  So spending has not been reduced.  It will probably increase.  He deregulated businesses, but is regulating private citizens much more.

Behind all the bluster, he's just been your standard religious/far-right/Tea Party neocon.  It's a good thing he's so incompetent or we'd really be screwed.

daytime drinking

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #851 on: May 15, 2017, 10:04:01 AM »

i'm just talking about the drugs war thing.  getting rid of some of its bureaucracy
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Butter

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #852 on: May 15, 2017, 10:22:32 AM »

i'm just talking about the drugs war thing.  getting rid of some of its bureaucracy

No.  As ZK mentioned, Jeff Sessions is the AG... he is in the pocket of for-profit prisons.  It is in their interest to have more incarcerated, thus decreasing the War on Drugs would have a negative impact on those prisons' bottom line.  And he's a right wing douchebag, so there's also that.
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daytime drinking

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #853 on: May 15, 2017, 10:37:42 AM »

i don't disagree that jeff sessions is bad news, but perhaps i'm just getting different information
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Butter

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Re: Random Political Musings
« Reply #854 on: May 15, 2017, 10:56:56 AM »

Sessions just restored federal "mandatory minimum" sentences for certain drug offenses.  I have also seen several articles written about him reaffirming or declaring a new "War on Drugs". 

I would be interested what your information is, but it seems at odds with reality.  Or perhaps there is some specific aspect of bureaucracy you are referring to.
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