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Author Topic: 50 books for 2017  (Read 1918 times)

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Dan

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Re: 50 books for 2017
« Reply #105 on: November 14, 2017, 12:27:22 PM »

Interesting. What are your sources for these claims?

There was definitely a lot of things in that book that didn't make sense. And a lot of things that were glossed over. He beat his wife. Then he beat his second wife. Then he beat his third wife. This wasn't mentioned much.  There were guys who liked him...and some liked him a lot. And he was very loyal to Detroit, as they were to him. So there certainly were things missing in the book that I feel like would have made for better writing if they had been explored more. Some things are lost to history and I assumed that the author wrote what he did because he had sources for it; he glossed over whatever he glossed over because it was lost to history or he didn't have a source to back it up. You are claiming otherwise, which is possible I suppose.

I have not done a wikipedia dive on this book.
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Zafer Kaya

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Re: 50 books for 2017
« Reply #106 on: November 14, 2017, 02:16:14 PM »

Sushie would probably be able to tell you a lot more about it.  I know that some SABR historians extensively reviewed the anecdotes in the Stump book, which is when it first started to get more widely discredited.

A lot of things are still true, or at least there's enough evidence to believe they are true.  Like, he slapped a black clubhouse attendant and then choked out his wife.  There's just no indication he did it because the dude was black, as opposed to he was just in a bad mood and pretty much would beat up anyone.  Also he did run into the stands to beat up a guy with no hands. That's true too.

There was a book that came out a few years ago on Cobb you might want to read.  It is called A Terrible Beauty.  It got mostly positive reviews.  I think some people felt it went too far the other way, like pointing out that the fan in the stands was a notorious heckler and that fights in baseball were very common in those days.  The dude still had no hands, man.  But the book was well-received as at least being extremely well-sourced and factually accurate.  People just didn't agree with the author's opinions/interpretations where he drew them.

Dan

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Re: 50 books for 2017
« Reply #107 on: November 14, 2017, 03:29:19 PM »

Yeah, that story was in the Stump book too about the no hands. And he said pretty much what you said - and just because the guy has no hands doesn't mean he's allowed to be an ass to the players. The Stump book (if I recall correctly) pointed out that most of the ballplayers agreed with Cobb on that one because the things that dude were saying had gone way over the line.

Sidenote - way over the line today versus way over the line in 1914 might be two different things.

The Stump book discusses how he beat up a number of black people. It also discusses how he beat up a number of umpires, fans, writers, and other non-blacks. But the book also points out that he really tended to focus on black people, so that's not good.

I'm not trying to defend it, though. Or Cobb. All that assholery and over-competitiveness is in the facts, not in stories.

Whether the Stump book is creditable or not, I think I'm done with The Georgia Peach for a long time. That was enough.
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Jonathan

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Re: 50 books for 2017
« Reply #108 on: November 14, 2017, 04:37:18 PM »

That story gave way a great comeback:

Concerned citizen: "You can't attack that man, he doesn't have any hands!"
Ty Cobb: "I don't care if he's got no feet!"
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"I believe that in the long view of history, the British Empire will be remembered only for two things. The game of football, and the expression 'fuck off.'" - Sir Richard Turnbull

daytime drinking

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Re: 50 books for 2017
« Reply #109 on: November 14, 2017, 09:10:55 PM »

 i don't see why you shouldn't treat everyone equally.  my wife's grandfather lost both his hands in a farming accident when he was a young man.  over time he was able to adapt and continue farming just like he used to.  i never got to meet the man but legend has it, he was even able to play a mean game of pinochle. you probably couldn't tell he had no hands until you went to shake one.  which is most likely where the fist bump (or respect knuckles) came into fashion.   you're at a decided disadvantage if you underestimate someone during a brawl.   the man's probably been getting away with this shit for years and ty cobb called his bluff 
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poach eggs, not elephants

Jonathan

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Re: 50 books for 2017
« Reply #110 on: November 14, 2017, 09:29:39 PM »

If I remember the story correctly, there is some question as to whether No Hands Guy was even the one who was heckling Ty Cobb in the first place. But then again, I could be mixing up my "Ty Cobb goes into the stands to fight somebody" stories.
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"I believe that in the long view of history, the British Empire will be remembered only for two things. The game of football, and the expression 'fuck off.'" - Sir Richard Turnbull

daytime drinking

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Re: 50 books for 2017
« Reply #111 on: Yesterday at 11:09:13 AM »


1- the devil in the white city- erik lawson. 
2- the wisdom of insecurity- alan watts
3- the gulag archipelago- aleksandr solzhenitsyn
4- the mill creek: an unnatural history of an urban stream- stanley hedeen
5- honey for the bears- anthony burgess
6- the hero with a thousand faces- joseph campbell
7- iceland; land of the sagas- david roberts and jon krakauer
8- magister ludi: the glass bead game- hermann hesse
9- independent people- halldor laxness
10- quiet days in clichy- henry miller
11- no one writes to the colonel & other stories- gabriel garcia marquez
12- how to raise a wild child- scott sampson
13- house of the dead- dostoyevsky

14- silent spring- rachel carson- well i certainly didn't think i would read almost 300 pages about insecticide in the 1950's.  i meant to read another of her books.

this probably is her magnum opus and is incredibly important.  this work lead to environment destroying pesticides being taken out of circulation.  it's pretty crazy how careless everyone was regarding these lethal chemicals, which were backed by men who donated generously to universities to promote their agenda.  but they weren't the only ones culpable.  governments just trusted these people and planes would drop glorious amounts of death upon housewives in detroit trying to protect their gardens from the chemical rain (because that shit looks ominous), anything outdoors just to kill a bug which will only become more of a pest when all along there's a simple way of dealing with it.  hi fiving nature and solving this bitch like a team! 

my favorite story she told was about nature fighting back (but nature doesn't really fight back as it's swallowing you whole perpetually).  like in the 1940's or something, a famous salmon run in nova scotia (or one of the off the beaten path canadian provinces) had almost dried up.  one of those more lethal than ddt chemicals was the most likely culprit.  then a fucking hurricane came, probably killed the fuckers who laced the land, and once again there were salmon

 
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poach eggs, not elephants
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