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Author Topic: Cincinnati Reds 2017  (Read 6416 times)

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daytime drinking

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Re: Cincinnati Reds 2017
« Reply #90 on: December 20, 2017, 01:31:39 PM »

the reds would have to eat an enormous amount joey contract to yield a favorable haul, and that would have to happen soon
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Zafer Kaya

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Re: Cincinnati Reds 2017
« Reply #91 on: December 20, 2017, 01:55:57 PM »

Man, I don't know.  Votto's a tricky one.

Normally, I am a big fan of the tear down and rebuild and scoff at fans who have no vision and complain about stuff like that.  And the thing is, the players don't care.  Like Brandon Phillips was fan-friendly and all but he demanded and got a lot of money while still complaining he wanted more.  Why be loyal to a guy that isn't that loyal back?

But Votto has never really complained about his contract.  He seems to love the team and always gives his all.  He's been tremendously underpaid through his career given the production.  If they traded Votto, they could get back some guys who bust and still win nothing.  There are some things more important than winning, both for the fans and the franchise.

If you treat Votto like shit, who will want to play there?  If Votto is the model team player and gets forced out, then what are your young players learning?

I dunno.  I generally don't believe in the franchise player/fan favorite BS, but there are extremely rare exceptions.  Votto might be one of them.  Maybe the only one in all of the pro sports leagues.  Even then, it's 50/50.  I can see why the Reds don't push the issue, but I would also commend them for a forward-thinking and taking a bold stroke if they managed to trade him for a gigantic haul.

Jonathan

  • Future Boy
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Re: Cincinnati Reds 2017
« Reply #92 on: December 20, 2017, 08:13:10 PM »

If they are going to get a gigantic haul, then the window is fast closing. We’re not talking Mike Trout here.

I would point toward the Giancarlo Stanton trade, but that’s an outlier. In that the Marlins were involved, and the Marlins have a history of getting underwhelming returns when trading their blue-chip players.
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"I believe that in the long view of history, the British Empire will be remembered only for two things. The game of football, and the expression 'fuck off.'" - Sir Richard Turnbull

euro60

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Re: Cincinnati Reds 2017
« Reply #93 on: December 20, 2017, 11:34:01 PM »

Votto has got to stay. With each and every year going by, his contract looks like a bargain deal, when you look at today's contracts being given to super-stars, which Votto certainly is. He is the ultimate professional, and delivers. The fact that he seems to love being a Red just endears him more to me. I have his jersey, and look forward to wearing it to Reds game for years to come, regardless of the club's overall situation (which obviously isn't great and won't be for years). Votto is tops.
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"A blind faith in authority is the worst enemy of truth" - Albert Einstein (1901)

The Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra is one of Cincinnati's underappreciated treasures

daytime drinking

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Re: Cincinnati Reds 2017
« Reply #94 on: December 21, 2017, 10:46:17 AM »

i've got your back euro.  jogging thru the esoteric jargon of statistical joey votto helps a man to bed better than any asian downer could ever provide.   i would rather miss the playoffs for a decade to have proudly called him our adopted son.  he cares more about the purity of baseball than he does winning.  he's a scientist
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Zafer Kaya

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Re: Cincinnati Reds 2017
« Reply #95 on: December 21, 2017, 12:40:24 PM »

If they are going to get a gigantic haul, then the window is fast closing. We’re not talking Mike Trout here.

I would point toward the Giancarlo Stanton trade, but that’s an outlier. In that the Marlins were involved, and the Marlins have a history of getting underwhelming returns when trading their blue-chip players.

The Marlins were stuck because of Stanton's crazy backloaded contract and his no-trade clause.  That severely limited what they could get for him.  I think Jeter is taking a little too much shit for that.  All the Marlins fans are like "We were just two pitchers away from contending!"  Yeah, well there's a crapton of teams two aces away from contending.  And there will be next year as well because it's hard enough to trade for one ace, much less two.  And they didn't have the prospects or the money to get them anyway.

I don't think they were going to be that good this year.  And they were likely to have to trade Stanton and Gordon after that.  Basically once they traded Gordon, you pretty much commit to blowing up the team.  Stanton/Gordon gets you money savings.  Hopefully Ozuna, Yelich, Castro gets you the minor league talent.  Sucking badly gets you the draft picks.  Then you're on the 3-5 year plan like the Astros and Cubs did.


Votto has somewhat friendlier contract but he's older and he must have 10 and 5 rights.  I don't know if the Reds would have the guts to trade him but at this point it's no longer up to them.  If Votto wants to stay (and apparently he does), then he's staying.  And that's not such a bad thing. 

The time to blow up the team was three years ago.  Since they didn't do that, it's a sunk cost.  Might as well let the fans enjoy Votto. 

euro60

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Re: Cincinnati Reds 2017
« Reply #96 on: December 22, 2017, 12:23:21 AM »


The time to blow up the team was three years ago.  Since they didn't do that, it's a sunk cost.  Might as well let the fans enjoy Votto.
agreed completely. Sadly, the Reds simply don't have a well-defined plan/strategy to become relevant again anytime soon. I remember looking with pity at the Astros piling up those 100+ losses year after year some years ago, and now they are World Series champs. Not gonna happen for the Reds I think <sigh>
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"A blind faith in authority is the worst enemy of truth" - Albert Einstein (1901)

The Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra is one of Cincinnati's underappreciated treasures

daytime drinking

  • City Elder
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Re: Cincinnati Reds 2017
« Reply #97 on: December 22, 2017, 02:24:38 PM »

castellini just refused to give up ticket sales. by god he was gonna milk that cow.  only thing that makes sense.  of all the trade scenarios involving chapman they opted for stupid.  as badly as i want to quit talking about how mismanaged this rebuild has been, i cannot believe i'm optimistic about the franchise
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euro60

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Re: Cincinnati Reds 2017
« Reply #98 on: December 23, 2017, 12:46:26 AM »

as badly as i want to quit talking about how mismanaged this rebuild has been, i cannot believe i'm optimistic about the franchise
well good for you... i am not <sigh> I just can't be
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"A blind faith in authority is the worst enemy of truth" - Albert Einstein (1901)

The Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra is one of Cincinnati's underappreciated treasures

daytime drinking

  • City Elder
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Re: Cincinnati Reds 2017
« Reply #99 on: December 23, 2017, 12:45:11 PM »

not a fan of the talent or the ownership?  both? 
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euro60

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Re: Cincinnati Reds 2017
« Reply #100 on: December 23, 2017, 11:40:02 PM »

I want to be a fan of both, but at this point I am "just deliver results on the field". All the rest is filler.
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"A blind faith in authority is the worst enemy of truth" - Albert Einstein (1901)

The Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra is one of Cincinnati's underappreciated treasures
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