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Author Topic: 2018 Midterm Elections  (Read 5655 times)

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Zafer Kaya

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections
« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2017, 08:17:18 PM »

Yeah.  The Washington Examiner is definitely conservative, but they do not try to hide it either.  They have some legit DC political reporters.

I would say they are kind of right in the middle of the right overall.  But they try to be a tent pole for all conservatives, which is bad.  And even the mid-right now is pretty messed up.

You have a lot of writers IMO, who are okay with a lot of stuff that is going down, they just wish Trump werenít so gauche about it.  Or that liberals somehow are to blame for forcing Trump to be this way and for voters to have voted for him.

You are not really objective if you print like 3 pro-Trump pieces and 3 critical pieces.  You are really just being a Trump apologist by giving him a thin veneer of respectability.  Like oh, we donít just blindly back him ALL the time.  But Trump is just bad.  If you were objective you really should be bashing him like 80% of the time.

The Examiner is like borderline okay now.   But are they going to do what needs to be done and start truly calling Trump out?  I donít think so.  The time has come to make a stand.  But I think they will do like the rest of the mainstream GOP.  Wring their hands but ultimately do nothing.

I dunno, I cannot defend CNN either.  They have gotten ridiculously bad.

I think Trump is delusional in a lot of ways, but that does not make him any less dangerous.  People are not just going to wake up one day and go, ďOh wait, what was I thinking?Ē  Just look at AL.  Trump endorsed Strange and he lost to Moore.  Trump is not the leader of some new movement, heís a pawn.  If Bannonís peeps win the primaries in 2018, I do not think he would hesitate to run someone against Trump.  That person would probably win.

daytime drinking

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2017, 11:49:30 PM »

so is bannon the pawnmaster?  him stepping aside from trump's camp was just a show as if to say, 'the ship has sailed, my work is done here'? 

he's a very savvy fella.  some say he's groomed to be the next ailes.  even he's a pawn
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Zafer Kaya

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections
« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2017, 07:43:48 PM »

I do not think of Bannon as a pawn master.  Heís not manipulating people or doing underhanded Behind-the-scenes stuff.  Quite the opposite.  Heís using an all-out, in your face, full-frontal attack.

Bannonís purity is what sets him apart.  He is not worried about polka, re-election, or even our system of government.  I honestly think that if he had the support he would attempt a military coup.  Dude is not fucking around.

The other thing is, I think Bannon was really the first person to really declare open warfare on the GOP.  Itís not that he likes liberals, obviously, but he hates the establishment GOP to an equal extent.  The right was split.  That is why they were losing elections.   But rather than compromise on issues or split power to present a united front against liberals, Bannon is strong-arming Republicans into going far right.

The GOP establishment still does not realize what has happened, or they are a bunch of wussies.  They are still trying to make peace and unite the party.  They do not get that Bannon and the far right have declared war on them.  There is no compromise. 

But itís not really Bannon that is the problem.  It is the far right.  Bannon too, can be replaced.  Thereís just no reason he would be as he is loyal and effective.  But if Bannon died tomorrow none of what is happening would stop.

Where I disagree with mark a lot is that I do not think the Democrats moving left will accomplish anything.  They are not in the equation.  Bannonís plans for dominance do not include Democrats in anyway.  He can get he core he needs just from he right.  Especially as he has little regard for the Constitution or playing fair.

Liberals cannot dislike Trump or Bannon any more than they already do.  They are united on that front. 

It is really up to the free-thinking conservatives to start to see Trump/Bannon/far right as a bigger enemy than Democrats.  They have to look beyond the policy issues.  Bannon is engaged in a cultural war.  Both of ďcultureĒ and ďwarĒ cnannot be emphasized enough.  When you look at something like trade agreements, Bannonís reasons for wanting out are as far different from normal GOP thinking as they are from Bernie Sanders. 

The GOP will have to get to the point where even if they agree on surface policy, they will put their foot down on the methods being used to.  Basically Flake is right, but no one (including Flake) has gotten to the point of actually doing anything about it.

Libertarians have been massively conned as well.  Over the years, they have let the message get warped that small government means limited government power and not just a smaller budget and staff.  That is why so many so-called Libertarians support Trump even though he is perhaps the most scarily authoritarian leader we have had.  Itís like ďYeah reduce the government to just one guy.  That sounds good.  Small government, less bureaucratic inefficiency.Ē  The bureaucratic inefficiency is their in large part to limit the power of government. 

Liberals are also quite stupid and easily fooled.  Most of the public is.  Itís not like I think they are smarter or better necessarily.  Itís just that in this particular instance, they are trying conned by the far right since they naturally hate them anyway. And the far right is the primary concern right now.

euro60

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections
« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2017, 10:35:48 PM »

The GOP establishment still does not realize what has happened, or they are a bunch of wussies.  They are still trying to make peace and unite the party.  They do not get that Bannon and the far right have declared war on them.  There is no compromise. 

THIS!

As someone who traditionally leans Republican, I am stupefied by what I am watching. As I told a friend today at lunch, I have not deserted the Republican Party, it has left me.

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"A blind faith in authority is the worst enemy of truth" - Albert Einstein (1901)

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daytime drinking

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections
« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2017, 11:29:23 AM »

then shouldn't you be more supportive of trump? 
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Dan

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections
« Reply #20 on: November 02, 2017, 12:35:12 PM »

how is that?
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daytime drinking

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections
« Reply #21 on: November 02, 2017, 01:12:33 PM »

if you're a gop guy and hate what it's become, trump is forcing them to change or be rendered obsolete
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Zafer Kaya

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections
« Reply #22 on: November 02, 2017, 01:44:13 PM »

He hates what the GOP has become due to the far right influence and Trump.

What the GOP stands for now is not at all what they used to represent.  The people being called RINO's are the actual Republicans.  The far right are the ones who are Republican in name only.

But you notice how people don't say RINO as much anymore?  They say establishment Republicans.  Which is what they also call Democrats.  And the media they don't get along with.  Now it's pretty much everyone they don't agree with is lumped in as "establishment," or "Congress" or "Mainstream."  You are seeing fewer attacks directed specifically at liberals.  And when the term "liberal" is thrown around, it's used interchangeably with "establishment" or "main stream."

That's an example of the open war between the far right and everyone else.  They no longer bother to distinguish between moderate right, left, or whatever.  They hate Corker and Flake as much as they hate Pelosi.  Maybe more.

euro60

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections
« Reply #23 on: November 02, 2017, 02:42:39 PM »

He hates what the GOP has become due to the far right influence and Trump.

What the GOP stands for now is not at all what they used to represent.  The people being called RINO's are the actual Republicans.  The far right are the ones who are Republican in name only.

DING! DING! DING! We have a winner
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"A blind faith in authority is the worst enemy of truth" - Albert Einstein (1901)

The Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra is one of Cincinnati's underappreciated treasures

Zafer Kaya

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections
« Reply #24 on: November 03, 2017, 04:51:15 PM »

I know three people who are lifelong Republicans and have vowed to vote straight ticket Democrat.

Which is pretty big, considering two of them live in my district and our Republican delegate is neither far right or crazy.  Very moderate guy, will call out his own party, and has crossed lines to vote against some of the stupider bills the right wing types have tried to pass.  I would vote for him, too if it weren't for this political situation.

I also know three people who are diehard liberals and are not voting for Northam because they are insane idiot Bernie Brother types who think he's a DINO.  One of them is a Sarandon type who is voting for Gillespie to "blow up the system."  Gillespie's not going to blow up the system.  Gillespie is the system.

That's pretty much the problem with the political scene and why Trump et al. are not going away.  The crazies have enough power to have taken over the GOP and unify what's left of it.  There would be enough deserters for the Democrats to win except that now liberals are where the GOP was this last decade, trying to deal with the Tea Party of the left splitting the ranks.

euro60

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections
« Reply #25 on: November 03, 2017, 11:51:02 PM »

ZK, you capture the situation perfectly. I voted Hillary in the 2016 election because her beliefs were closer to mine than were Trump's, who is of course not a Republican (in the way that I have always understood it). I did vote Republican in the previous 2 presidential elections.

The all-out wars that are going on right now within both parties remain to be seen how it all is going to play out. I have no idea what is going to happen next. I do know this: I will never vote for Trump. If the Democratic candidate is someone like Elizabeth Warren, I know I also will not vote for her. Likewise for Bernie Sanders. I'll review everything carefully. While I once considered myself a fairly reliable Republican, I'd call myself "independent" now, and I will strictly vote on substance, regardless of party affiliation.
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"A blind faith in authority is the worst enemy of truth" - Albert Einstein (1901)

The Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra is one of Cincinnati's underappreciated treasures

dirk

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections
« Reply #26 on: November 03, 2017, 11:59:55 PM »

I think the biggest problem is that everything has shifted so far right that there is no balance anymore. The mainstream democratic party is close to what The GOP was in the early 80s under Reagan (with some small differences). Clinton was a Reagan republican, not a democrat. And the GOP has shifted so far to the right they are basically on the verge of being the KKK with the candidates they have. While Sanders and Warren are seen as extreme, they are what the democratic party used to be, actually liberal. We now have a far right party, a right party, and some rabble rousers from the mid to slightly far left.
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Zafer Kaya

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections
« Reply #27 on: November 04, 2017, 09:18:37 AM »

I disagree completely.  Sanders has never at any point been a mainstream liberal.  Why do you think he is independent?  He has always been far left.  Clinton was probably slightly farther left than Obama.

Liberals just got greedy is all.  No one wants to say bad shit about Obama so they ignored the fact he was not very liberal at all.  They blamed it on Congress.  Which is not altogether unfair.  But then they expected Clinton to be all leftist and fix that at a time when it was impossible.  Sanders and Clinton voted together 95% of the time.  None of Sandersí whacky plans had a snowballís chance in hell of passing. 

If I had to choose between Sanders and Trump, I think I would grit my teeth and vote for Sanders.  Maybe.  I do not agree with his policies, although I like him as a person.  Or did until the last election, now Iím a little more iffy.  I will not vote for Warren.  I might even vote for Trump before Warren.

Did the Dems want Clinton to win?  Of course.  Because she represents their platform, and moreover she has paid her dues for the party.  The Dems let Sanders run so he could get his message out there and the far left would know that the Dems had not forgotten about them.  Sanders took that opportunity to trash the Democrats instead.  He sounds like a complete tool whenever he talks about how bad Trump is now, because he said the same shit about Democrats.  There was and is a huge distinction between Clinton and Trump.

The ďeveryone sucks so it doesnít matter just blow up the systemĒ rhetoric is how the far right took over.  I view the far left with equal contempt.  If both sides are doing this, then we are screwed.  I donít care who is in charge.

Dan

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections
« Reply #28 on: November 06, 2017, 11:00:26 AM »

Sorry to have to ask, but can someone outline what Elizabeth Warren's general policies are? I'm surprised to hear ZK not interested in her based on the (very) little I know of her.
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Zafer Kaya

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Re: 2018 Midterm Elections
« Reply #29 on: November 07, 2017, 08:17:57 AM »

People covering the Virginia elections donít seem to understand that the important race is not for Governor, but lt. governor.

Virginia is legit purple, and getting more blue.  But it is not as blue as people think.  The only reason Democrats keep winning the Governorship is the GOP keeps running out far right idiots.   Freaking Cuccinelli almost beat McAuliffe, and he is a total nut job and this was also after the GOP governor (only slightly less nutty) was charged with a felony.

Gillespie is a pretty run-of-the-mill Republican.  The only reason not to vote for him if you are Republican is to go against Trump and the far right.  I do not think enough people will cross lines to vote for a rather blah Dem just for that.

But in the lt. governor race you have a totally awful person in Vogel running against a bright young black dude in Fairfax. Iím not saying Vogel is just bad because of policy, though she was the architect of the bill requiring vaginal ultrasounds.  She also spread rumors about her opponent having an affair.   They traced the emails to her in address. 

So if you see Vogel do as well or better than Gillespie, then that tells you the far right has taken over or that the average Republican is just going to vote party over state/country regardless.  If she does worse than Gillespie, that tells you how many solid Republicans are willing to resist the far right.

If Northam and Fairfax both win, that might be the death blow for the GOP in Virginia.  Because Northam is an unexciting guy, and he does not appeal much to students and young voters who would have preferred Periello.


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