Randomville

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
GigaBook.com
Advanced search  

News:

Pages: 1 ... 6 7 [8] 9 10   Go Down

Author Topic: Cincinnati Reds 2018  (Read 7994 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Dan

  • Tetris Master
  • City Elder
  • Posts: 13,481
Re: Cincinnati Reds 2018
« Reply #105 on: July 19, 2018, 01:52:12 PM »

It's the guys leading up to the ninth that are awful.  And the good news there is that they are so incredibly bad it's almost impossible not to improve.  You could pick up 4 guys off the waiver wire and do better.  But the Indians won't have to do that because there will be a bunch of teams selling at the deadline and middle relievers are cheap.  The Padres alone have three or four solid relievers they probably will be happy to deal.

You called that.

They would be idiots to trade Meija or McKenzie but they don't need a superstar reliever anyway.  Just basic competency, and it shouldn't take more than a decent upper level B prospect.  Maybe even less if it's just a half season rental.

And you called them idiots.


And now Mejia is gone. Fuck.
Logged

Zafer Kaya

  • City Elder
  • Posts: 3,665
Re: Cincinnati Reds 2018
« Reply #106 on: July 19, 2018, 03:41:10 PM »

The fact that they got Cimber makes it a lot more palatable.  People are calling it a trade for Brad Hand because the Indians need a closer, but I actually think Cimber isn't just a throw in.  In fact, I like him more than Hand.

So instead of making two trades to get to relievers giving up two prospects their 5-10 range, they got two guys with their top prospect, and lots of years of control.  Not that relievers are reliable for more than a couple years but then a couple years is all the Indians need before their window closes anyway.

I still don't like the deal, but it's certainly not a rip-off or unjustifiable or anything like that.  I'm guessing I'm probably in the minority and most people or at least the expert/saber/baseball geeks think the Indians got a solid deal.  I haven't read Fangraphs yet, so maybe I'm wrong. 

daytime drinking

  • City Elder
  • Posts: 1,735
Re: Cincinnati Reds 2018
« Reply #107 on: July 20, 2018, 01:23:59 PM »

would have iglesias and garrett/hughes been a lesser value?  what's the potential there?
Logged
poach eggs, not elephants

Zafer Kaya

  • City Elder
  • Posts: 3,665
Re: Cincinnati Reds 2018
« Reply #108 on: July 20, 2018, 02:44:43 PM »

Iglesias and Hughes would be a pretty similar package.  Iglesias is maybe not quite as good as Hand but has more upside.  Hand costs $13.5 m through 2020, while Iglesias costs $10m.  Hand has an option for 2021 where he would cost $10m but that's kinda blah.  The Indians probably would not pick that up and then it would cost them $1m to buy it out. 

Cimber is cost-controlled and cheap for a long time vs Hughes, but Hughes is more proven and dependable. Also, Hughes can go multiple innings.  I think Cimber is going to be a lights out closer but I may be biased because I love closers with funky delivers and crazy looking pitches.  Cimber has this submarine/sidearm looking slider that's pretty much impossible for righties to hit, but he doesn't have a pitch against lefties. 

But anyway, yeah.  An Iglesias/Hughes combo would probably net something like Mejia.  A #2 prospect from a really good team, or a #1 prospect with a few questions from a more average farm system.  Iglesias/Hughes might get a little more just because I think a lot of teams love Iglesias. The big thing with Mejia is there are some doubts whether he can play C. 

Mejia's bat is incredible for a catcher but just sort of average as an outfielder.  He appears to be almost exactly like Willson Contreras was for the Cubs a few years ago.  He can probably play OF at an acceptable level, but then his bat is nothing special there.  Mejia apparently has the physical tools to play C but for some reason just isn't that good.  Contreras had the excuse of being raw because he switched positions in the minors.  Also Contreras had a better eye at the plate.  But anyway, the upside of Mejia is Contreras as a C.  All-star with great bat and average to slightly better than average defense.  The downside of Mejia is a slightly lesser Contreras in the OF, which would be a decent fourth OF but a middling starter.




Zafer Kaya

  • City Elder
  • Posts: 3,665
Re: Cincinnati Reds 2018
« Reply #109 on: July 24, 2018, 04:18:23 PM »

It will be hilarious if the Mets trade Mesoraco but the Reds don't trade Harvey.

daytime drinking

  • City Elder
  • Posts: 1,735
Re: Cincinnati Reds 2018
« Reply #110 on: July 24, 2018, 11:41:40 PM »

people should resign if they hold onto harvey
Logged
poach eggs, not elephants

euro60

  • City Elder
  • Posts: 4,162
Re: Cincinnati Reds 2018
« Reply #111 on: July 26, 2018, 12:40:51 AM »

people should resign if they hold onto harvey
People have resigned already.

I am actually going to the Reds game on Saturday, the only non-work related Reds game I'm going to this year. Combination of my upcoming b'day and the Walk the Moon show and both my kids (31 and 28) going. Even though both my kids are in Cincinnati, the times that all 3 of us are together at the same time are rare, 3 or 4 times in a year, so this is kinda special in fact. I'm looking forward to it for that reason.
Logged
"A blind faith in authority is the worst enemy of truth" - Albert Einstein (1901)

The Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra is one of Cincinnati's underappreciated treasures

trixi

  • Sun Bum
  • Global Moderator
  • City Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,581
  • My heart belongs to Ryne Sandberg
Re: Cincinnati Reds 2018
« Reply #112 on: July 26, 2018, 09:03:37 PM »

I will be there Sat as well...one of the few non-Cubs games I'll be attending.  Looking forward to getting my #sjv voodoo doll :-D :-D
Logged
"Beware the lustful fires that burn in a librarian's heart. They can rage beyond all control."

Drjohnrock

  • City Elder
  • Posts: 619
  • Wondering whassup? It's Fall sound!
Re: Cincinnati Reds 2018
« Reply #113 on: July 30, 2018, 11:21:56 PM »

It's been announced this evening that the Reds have traded Adam Duvall to the Braves for three, uh, players I guess you'd call them.  I don't like this trade from a baseball standpoint.  But I'll let others discuss/argue about that on this thread.  I hate to see him go even more from a personal standpoint.  Duvall has type 1 diabetes and has generously given his time to organizations that are looking for a cure and that help those with t1d live better lives.  My daughter is t1d.  Duvall is a good role model and inspiration for her.  She spoke with him and got her picture taken with him at a diabetes conference awhile back.  She is understandably upset about the trade. I hope it doesn't turn her into a Braves fan.
Logged
I refuse to shut up about Johnny Dowd until the world recognizes his musical genius.  I may lose my voice before that happens but at least I can enjoy the man's music while going mute.

Don't feed trolls by responding to or acknowledging them.

euro60

  • City Elder
  • Posts: 4,162
Re: Cincinnati Reds 2018
« Reply #114 on: July 30, 2018, 11:39:31 PM »

Nice take on the trade, Drjohn, I never would've thought of it that way.

As am aside, my kids and I attended Saturday's Reds game, which was well attended (35K+). We didn't care much about the game (in fact, it was the 4th or 5th inning by the time we got there after enjoying a drink on the fabulous rooftop bar on the AC Hotel across the street), but we were there for the post-game Walk the Moon concert. And these guys delivered, bringing a stadium-sized show that is all about having a good time. So much fun.

BTW, this is the only non-work related Reds game I have attended this year (and plan on no others).
Logged
"A blind faith in authority is the worst enemy of truth" - Albert Einstein (1901)

The Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra is one of Cincinnati's underappreciated treasures

Butter

  • Suffering from early-onset douchiness
  • City Elder
  • Posts: 10,148
Re: Cincinnati Reds 2018
« Reply #115 on: July 31, 2018, 07:35:08 AM »

As a pure baseball move, I'm fine with it.  The guy has 15 HRs and isn't even OPSing .700.  We have plenty of decent looking hitters who probably should be getting playing time and aren't almost 30.

I do hope he does well, but this seems like a very Braves hitter to me, someone who is right around the Mendoza line but can hit homers.  With the emergence of Suarez and Gennett, Duvall is very much surplus.
Logged

daytime drinking

  • City Elder
  • Posts: 1,735
Re: Cincinnati Reds 2018
« Reply #116 on: July 31, 2018, 10:10:38 AM »

what's not to like about the trade?  you weren't expecting a better haul were you?  duval, is, replaceable and you never know how these trades are gonna work out anyway.  i mean, look at duval.  just got a brief introduction to the newest 'leggers and is neither encouraging or discouraging because what is unknown cannot be replaced by the known, that is, the outfield becomes less hazy and the dynamic of the team is starting to unfold.   and no they aren't trading scooter and possibly harvey in august apparently.  we're building to win, now.  next year playoffs, tomorrow... playoffs.  rebuild
Logged
poach eggs, not elephants

Zafer Kaya

  • City Elder
  • Posts: 3,665
Re: Cincinnati Reds 2018
« Reply #117 on: July 31, 2018, 03:13:14 PM »

It was a decent trade for both sides.  For a contending team, a big power bat off the bench for those situations where you are down 2 runs with a guy on base and need the HR is useful.  Plus unlike a lot of pure power hitters who tend to be oafish, Duvall can actually play defense which makes him more than just a PH.  If you have a player that needs a day off, Duvall isn't going to hurt you.  He may even help you if the Braves are facing a lefty.

For the Reds though, Duvall was somewhat useless. But what any team can use, but a lousy team especially is arms.  Even assuming the most likely scenario that the Reds are crappy next year AND Wisler and Sims are both crappy, who cares?  They're sacrificial arms who can throw some innings and buy time for DeSclafini to get healthy or Cody Reed or Brad Finnegan to stay in AAA and figure things out.  Or Stephenson if he needs more time.

I'm of the opinion that for every 6 failed SP with a good prospect pedigree, probably one of them can convert to reliever and be useful, one of them can figure things out enough to be a useful backend starter, and maybe one of them actually reaches their potential to become not an ace but a decent #2 maybe.

And the nice thing about having a lousy team is it affords you the luxury of just churning through players like this until you find some wheat in the chaff.

I remember the Cubs doing this and it frustrated me to no end because Epstein would point at these starters like they were good and he wasn't just punting the season.  And I would be like, No you idiot those guys suck.  Get prospects.  But now I see the logic.  The Cubs were signing every bad FA to pillow contracts and getting them as pieces back for mediocre guys like Duvall or picking them up off the waiver wire.

There were so many of them.  Most of them were indeed awful.  But it didn't matter because the Cubs were terrible anyway.  But some of them ended up useful.  Like Strailly was one of them, he just didn't do well for the Cubs.  But later he did okay for the Reds.  Jason Hammel was one of them and he pitched his ass off for the Cubs and helped turn them around and then got traded to the A's as part of the Russell deal so that was actually quite instrumental in the rebuild.  And of course Scott Feldman pitched a half, not-terrible season for the Cubs and the O's were looking for a backend starter for the stretch run and tossed them two more failed guys they were an inch away from DFA'ing the Cubs could churn.  One of them was Jake Arrieta.  The other was Pedro Strop.

So if you look at the trade like "oooh, these are the two missing pieces we need to transform the rotation and contend next year" then you will likely be sorely mistaken.  But if you look at instead of "We need audition at least ten arms to build a good staff and now here are two, for Duvall who was expendable" then it works out.

The only kind of sour note is that we're talking about the Braves who are the best in the business with young pitchers.  If they can't do anything with these guys, who can?  OTOH, I guess you can say that if the Braves who know their stuff at some point saw the potential, then maybe it's still there.  And I mean, what else were you going to get for Adam Duvall?  Overall a decent, though likely unimpactful trade for the Reds.

daytime drinking

  • City Elder
  • Posts: 1,735
Re: Cincinnati Reds 2018
« Reply #118 on: August 01, 2018, 01:21:48 PM »

cbssportsline said the braves potentially gave up too much.   that'd be hilarious.  the reds seem to excel at the bargain heap more than trading.  i hope that's being addressed.  i want three more suarezes.  four   
Logged
poach eggs, not elephants

Zafer Kaya

  • City Elder
  • Posts: 3,665
Re: Cincinnati Reds 2018
« Reply #119 on: August 01, 2018, 01:56:42 PM »

If the Reds were really good at finding great players out of the bargain heap then they wouldn't suck.

That's not a knock on the Reds.  I don't think any team nowadays is particularly good at it. Everyone has all the numbers and scouts and analysts.  It's not that player evaluation is perfect, just that the science of player evaluation is standardized.  There's some great players out there but no team is better at finding them than others.  What you can do is just buy enough lottery tickets and you're going to eventually hit on something.

Teams don't succeed by finding hidden gems anymore.  It's brutally mechanically and business-like.  Look at the Astros.  That org. is heartless as mofos.  "Hey this guy is devalued because he beats up women but it sure doesn't impact him on the field. Bargain!"  "Hey check out this young pitcher with a medical issue.  We'll draft him, hold that over his head as leverage and see if he will sign dirt cheap.  If not, we get the pick back next year.  If he loses college eligibility oh well that sucks for him but it doesn't hurt us."  "There's all these dudes in third world countries that can barely eat.  They'll play for anything.  Sign up 20 of them!"







Pages: 1 ... 6 7 [8] 9 10   Go Up