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Author Topic: Avengers: Infinity War (spoilers included)  (Read 1858 times)

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Dan

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Avengers: Infinity War (spoilers included)
« on: April 30, 2018, 11:44:42 AM »

So, who's seen this already?
Because I want to know...what the hell happened at the end?

I mean, I know what happened. But many of their franchises died. No more Spiderman movies? Or do they make Spiderman movies that take place BEFORE Infinity War takes place? I'm doubting that's the case. They worked so so hard to get the rights back for Spiderman that they didn't just kill him.

Or is there some other device where they turn back time and then suddenly everyone is fine again? I know that the comics can kill characters and bring them back whenever they want, so watching those scenes to me felt like, "okay they are dead, but they aren't really dead, you know?" So watching them die didn't have the same emotional pull that it should have had.

Thoughts?
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Kwyjibo

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Re: Avengers: Infinity War (spoilers included)
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2018, 09:52:17 AM »

This link explains things more succinctly than I could.  https://www.npr.org/sections/monkeysee/2018/04/30/607093337/okay-lets-talk-about-the-ending-of-avengers-infinity-war

There is already another Avengers, Spiderman, and Guardians movie already in the works.  As the the article says, if you believe that Marvel is done with T'Challa, you're a T'Chump.

On the other hand, Robert Downey Jr. and Chris Evans are both at the end of their multi-picture contracts.  Downey has been saying he's out for a while.  Those two characters are probably toast at some point in the future.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2018, 10:00:41 AM by Kwyjibo »
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Kwyjibo

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Re: Avengers: Infinity War (spoilers included)
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2018, 09:55:55 AM »

Here's the money shot on that article... for the lazy.

Quote
Six Reasons Why THE SNAPTURE(tm) Isn't Anything To Freak Out About:

1. I say this all the time: This is the superhero genre, in which death is not, as Hamlet called it, "that undiscover'd country/from whose bourn no stranger returns."

No: It's Tijuana, and there's a shuttle on the hour. They'll be back.

2. There is, in the world of the movie, a little thing called a Time Stone, an artifact of primordial power whose whole gig is playing with the flow of time.

3. That Time Stone was voluntarily surrendered by Doctor Strange (Benedict Cumberbatch), who'd seen millions of potential outcomes. Cumberbatch didn't play that decision as an act of desperation earlier in the film, Strange mentioned he'd protect the Stone over the lives of Tony Stark (Robert Downey Jr.) and Peter Parker (Tom Holland). Clearly, he's playing a long game, and set something in mystical motion that would survive his own Snapturing.

4. Outside the world of the movie, there's such a thing as a multi-picture contract. If you seriously think Marvel would let T'Challa go out like that, you're a T'Chump.

5. "We don't trade a life for a life." That line turns up several times in the film, without a real payoff. That's because pure speculation now it will get paid off, in Avengers 4, next summer.
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Dan

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Re: Avengers: Infinity War (spoilers included)
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2018, 01:59:21 PM »

Thanks. Most of that is pretty much what I figured, but I was also figuring things like, "uhhh, sure, there's a Time Stone, but that Time Stone is in Thanos' possession. Considering that he pretty much just walked into that movie and did whatever he wanted and no one could stop him, I don't see how they get it back. So it's going to be awfully hard to time warp back to pre-Snapture."

I do agree with point 3 above about Dr. Strange's decision to just give it up.

Also, I'm eating lunch. Is there a Flavor Stone?
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Kwyjibo

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Re: Avengers: Infinity War (spoilers included)
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2018, 02:36:17 PM »

Well, someone on Whele's FB page mentioned that one of the aspects of the comics that the MCU has not really touched on is that Hulk gets stronger the angrier he is.  That may have had something to do with his reluctance to come out.  So, that may have some bearing on how Thanos goes down, but who knows.  In every MCU movie the odds seem unbeatable, but they always end up beat.  There will be some way to take him down, one way or another.
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Dan

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Re: Avengers: Infinity War (spoilers included)
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2018, 04:32:30 PM »

I had heard that some of the super heroes die going into this, so we were discussing who it might be. I figured some of the characters who's stories had been told, like Capt. America, or characters who weren't that interesting, like Thor or Hawkeye, or characters who's actors were getting a bit up there in age and might be wanting to do something else. Or that their contracts were done in the first place.  So there were plenty of candidates.

Plus, on top of that, the stronger the superhero, the stronger the villain needs to be. Which is why they are fighting Thanos, an all-powerful god. Otherwise the story telling stinks. So losing a lot of superheroes  made sense to me: we can go back to simpler and more mortal villains.

But then almost all of them died. It threw me off a bit, you know?

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notoriouspbake

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Re: Avengers: Infinity War (spoilers included)
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2018, 09:48:21 PM »

if they pull off a galaxy quest omega machine time travel thing to unravel what happened, that'll be cheap. don't forget dr.strange had some kind of spell on the time stone. that'll come back into play.

i did like how they gave thanos some humanistic qualities - at least to me. he's doing all of that for the "greater good" of all (my quotes, he never said that in the movie) to make life better for those he doesn't arbitrarily kill.

some one else commented on all the action with little dialogue or character development. since i haven't watched all the movies, was all that done in previous films?

i joked to my students that everyone dies "it's a war isn't it? people die in wars!" little did i know about the snapture.

things i missed not seeing all the other movies: vision - who was that? thor lost an eye? the avengers broke up - cap and stark aren't talking?

wakanda - does no one there have a copy of "the art of war"? they were using civil war tactics against space dogs. what about using superior air power to pick off those space dogs? funnel them into some kill zone? always amuses me how the good and bad guys take turns fighting each other and never seem to try to overwhelm the opponent with superior numbers and firepower; they almost did pull this off for their trap of thanos on titan. eh, it's a popcorn movie.

when's the next part come out?

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Kwyjibo

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Re: Avengers: Infinity War (spoilers included)
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2018, 10:27:27 AM »

characters who weren't that interesting, like Thor


Say what???

things i missed not seeing all the other movies: vision - who was that? thor lost an eye? the avengers broke up - cap and stark aren't talking?


You've missed quite a bit.

Vision - See Avengers: Age of Ultron and Captain America: Civil War.  But basically, he's Jarvis come to life.

Avengers breakup/Cap and Stark not speaking - Also Civil War.  Nutshell version: after the events of Age of Ultron the Avengers are hamstrung by an accord signed to limit their ability to destroy cities while protecting them.  (AKA: the stupidest thing I've ever heard).  Half of the crew complies, half feels it's their duty to continue.  Cap and Stark are on opposing sides.
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Dan

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Re: Avengers: Infinity War (spoilers included)
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2018, 02:58:06 PM »

characters who weren't that interesting, like Thor


Say what???


Well, he's a god. How does one kill a god? Do gods have challenges? What is his conflict? He's a bit too powerful, you know?
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Kwyjibo

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Re: Avengers: Infinity War (spoilers included)
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2018, 01:41:16 PM »

Have you not seen the Thor movies?
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Dan

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Re: Avengers: Infinity War (spoilers included)
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2018, 02:17:39 PM »

Yup. I liked the first one more than most. I saw the 2nd one but ultimately it's so boring I couldn't tell you a thing about it.

Ragnorok was...really good. Fun, enjoyable, different. Most of that had little to do with Thor the character and more to do with other characters.


Might I point out..... THOR WITHSTOOD THE LIGHT OF A STAR BLASTING AT HIM and showed up two scenes later like nothing interesting had even happened.
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Zafer Kaya

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Re: Avengers: Infinity War (spoilers included)
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2018, 04:08:28 PM »

Thor's only "flaws" are, 1)  He's temperamental, impulsive, and owing to his superpowers never really has to think, 2)  He doesn't necessarily care about humans or this plane of existence that much.  He probably shouldn't care at all, but he does.

So that's kind of the twist.  The flaw is also the strength.  The fact that he gives a shit about humans is a function of his emotional and impulsive nature.  No one beats Thor in a straight up fight.  But you can sometimes temporarily win against him if you trick him.  This involves one or both of two basic strategies. 

1)  You trick him into giving up Mjolnir.  This reduces his powers enough that a massively awesome army and/or insanely powered person (not just Captain America, it would have to be an alien or like Hercules) can stall him or take him out for a bit.  You never actually defeat Thor this way.  But you can  make him get sidetracked having to find his hammer or deal with smaller problems.  He's a God.  So like losing his hammer and then having to get it is like you forgetting where you put your car keys.  It's a PITA and a distraction/delay.  Only a half hour for Thor is like 50 years of human time.  So you can effectively take Thor out if your plan takes place within normal human timespans.

2)  You trick him into attacking the wrong people, so he's helping you inadvertently or he's distracted.  The irony here is that is how the good guys often get Thor to help them.  Thor really shouldn't give a crap about any of us, but you can talk him into it by appealing to his emotions.

It's hard to write Thor correctly.  If you do it wrong (which 95% of people do), then he's just kind of a temperamental asshole and the fate of the world depends on whether he decides to get his lazy ass in gear or if he's feeling it that day.

But if you do it right, Thor represents the existential dilemma.  Because there's no inherent purpose to his existence.  He's got a brother who he loves but is also kind of a dick.  He has a dad who is sort of a boring and not particularly loveable guy.  Physically, Thor is unstoppable.  Mentally and spiritually, he's just a normal guy.  So, you put him in scenarios where he is forced to choose between two options and it brings out the humanity.

Like, compare him to Captain America who is a boring ass dude.  He's got a strong moral code, and he follows it rigidly.  Give him two options and he will pick one and fight to the death.  Captain America's  thing is how he doesn't hesitate to do the right thing against overwhelming odds and that he gets his ass kicked and suffers horribly but never gives up.  It's kind of cool as far as the bravery aspect.  But it's sort of blah as far as plot goes.  You know what Captain America's going to do, and either he wins or he doesn't. 

Thor's thing is how he can kick everyone's ass but it doesn't solve his problems.  He doesn't always know what to do, even though he's capable of doing whatever.

The shit characters are Scarlet Witch and Dr. Strange.  They are not as physically tough as Thor but it doesn't matter because they can just magic whatever they want.  They can't physically best Thor, but they can essentially defeat him easily 100% of the time.  Just toss him into some crazy plane or play mind tricks on him, or go back in time and rearrange it so that Thor isn't there when he needs to be.  Neither Thor nor anyone or anything else is a barrier to them.  No one can possibly write a decent story containing a fully powered Scarlet or Dr. Strange.

Butter

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Re: Avengers: Infinity War (spoilers included)
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2018, 08:04:24 AM »

The shit characters are Scarlet Witch and Dr. Strange.  They are not as physically tough as Thor but it doesn't matter because they can just magic whatever they want.  They can't physically best Thor, but they can essentially defeat him easily 100% of the time.  Just toss him into some crazy plane or play mind tricks on him, or go back in time and rearrange it so that Thor isn't there when he needs to be.  Neither Thor nor anyone or anything else is a barrier to them.  No one can possibly write a decent story containing a fully powered Scarlet or Dr. Strange.

Yeah, this.  You have a guy that can see into the god damn future AND can see alternate timelines.  Use that shit.  Or, in this case, don't and we'll just all pretend like he's not going to be the one to save the day.
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dirk

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Re: Avengers: Infinity War (spoilers included)
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2018, 01:03:35 PM »

What exactly are the Scarlet Witch's powers in the MCU? It seems to be whatever they need at the time. She can fly, shoot blast, shoot specific blasts to destroy an infinity stone, telekinesis, generating force fields, telepathy, and making people see illusions. She pretty much has anything they need at any time.
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Dan

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Re: Avengers: Infinity War (spoilers included)
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2018, 02:42:51 PM »

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