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Author Topic: So what makes a sport?  (Read 6926 times)

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watusi

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So what makes a sport?
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2004, 12:24:02 PM »

in any sport, the judges or officiators are part of the equation. it CAN change the outcome,no matter what the game.on the other hand, in auto racing, even though there are no judges or referrees, a rules violation can be handed down by the sanctioning body that can result in loss of position or disqualification.
so as butter said, it may have to be a broad definition.
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clemsonfan

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So what makes a sport?
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2004, 12:24:30 PM »

I enjoy racing on treadmills against people at the gym. Is that a sport?
 :P
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Jonathan

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So what makes a sport?
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2004, 12:25:50 PM »

Here's my point:

In figure skating, gymnastics, diving, et. al., there is no way for the participants to determine who the winner is. That determination is made solely by the judges. In sports such as soccer, baseball, football, etc. the referees/umpires do not determine who wins or loses. They make rules interpretations, and sometimes those intereptions have an effect on the outcome, but the decision on the winner or loser is not in their hands.

Urs Meier didn't say "Portugal is the winner of this match." He made a rules interpretation, and it turned out to have a dramatic effect on the outcome. But he didn't declare Portugal to be the winner. And, to turn your example around, how many times have you seen a questionable call go against a team that ended up winning, anyway, because their quality of play was high enough that they were able to overcome the ruling? That happens a lot more often, I reckon.

I believe that the athletes should be the ones who settle the matter. If they don't have that ability, under the rules, then their activity is not a sport.
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"I believe that in the long view of history, the British Empire will be remembered only for two things. The game of football, and the expression 'fuck off.'" - Sir Richard Turnbull

Butter

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So what makes a sport?
« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2004, 12:26:44 PM »

How do you race on a treadmill?  Do you use a forklift to pick it up?
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Butter

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So what makes a sport?
« Reply #19 on: July 01, 2004, 12:29:34 PM »

Some would argue that in figure skating, et. al., that more often than not the athletes DO settle the outcome, and that the judges usually are correct in their decision making.

I sound like a figure skating booster for some reason, and the truth is, I can't stand it.  But I do believe it to be a sport.  There is scoring (rigged or not), and there is a winner.  That's a sport.
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watusi

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So what makes a sport?
« Reply #20 on: July 01, 2004, 12:37:00 PM »

but the judges CAN affect the outcome just by enforcing the rules. sorry to use auto racing again,but its one of the few sports i know.
if a yellow flag comes out and i am in the lead with,say, 5 laps to go. i pass the pace car for an instant and return to my place.if i receive a black flag for the infraction and have to go to the end of the lead lap cars. even though i had the fastest car and lead the entire race i cannot possiby make up the positions to win even though i was the dominant car. the second plac car(or whoever) now wins the race because the sanctioning body(the judges so to speak) merely made me comply with the rules.

edited to add: okay, the judges didn't say "you lose" but can,in effect say "you don't win". am i understanding it right?
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Jonathan

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So what makes a sport?
« Reply #21 on: July 01, 2004, 12:43:19 PM »

But who passed the pace car? You, or the judges? You broke the rule, you pay the consequences. It's in the rule book in black and white...you cannot pass the pace car under yellow. If you do, you will be black flagged and go to the end of the longest line (or get a stop and go penalty, I'm not sure of the punishment)

Meanwhile, NASCAR can't say "Well, you did win the race by 15 car lengths, but back on Lap 87, we think the second place car avoided that seven-car pile up in a more artistic fashion than you did. Just our opinion, but on the basis of that, we're going to give him the victory instead."
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"I believe that in the long view of history, the British Empire will be remembered only for two things. The game of football, and the expression 'fuck off.'" - Sir Richard Turnbull

watusi

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So what makes a sport?
« Reply #22 on: July 01, 2004, 12:44:35 PM »

agreed.
but wait, there have been a few instances where victories have been taken away AFTER a race and awarded to the second place car for rules violations.. (i'll try to find a link to back that up)
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clemsonfan

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So what makes a sport?
« Reply #23 on: July 01, 2004, 12:49:42 PM »

Quote from: "Butter"
How do you race on a treadmill?  Do you use a forklift to pick it up?



We push it around the floor. It's a race and a test of strength!
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watusi

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So what makes a sport?
« Reply #24 on: July 01, 2004, 12:53:17 PM »

Jordan driver Giancarlo Fisichella was declared the winner of Formula One's Brazilian Grand Prix on Friday, five days after the race and following a review by the governing body of motorsports.

FIA ruled that Fisichella was leading before the race was stopped due to numerous crashes and spinouts on the rain-soaked Interlagos track Sunday. McLaren's Kimi Raikkonen had previously been declared winner.

"Right at this moment, any victory is a major result for us," said Jordan team owner and founder Eddie Jordan, who emerged from FIA's Paris headquarters with his fist clenched in victory.

"Giancarlo has won the race. It's a fantastic victory for him, his first ever Grand Prix, but we're all delighted."

The race was stopped in what appeared to be the 55th lap, when Spanish driver Fernando Alonso crashed into wreckage left by Australian driver Mark Webber.

Fisichella was leading at that stage, but Raikkonen was declared winner because he had been in front two laps before the race was halted.

But FIA ruled Friday that Fisichella was on his 56th lap when the race was stopped. Under F-1 rules, that meant the race officially was stopped on lap 54, and Fisichella was leading at that point.

"We were always aware that we were on lap 56 and that has been proved beyond doubt today," Jordan said. "Initially, we thought that we'd won and then there were some misunderstandings. But now everything has been put to rights I'm overjoyed."



so in this case,the victory was taken away 5 days later because the judges made a mistake,not because any of the participants violated the rules.i guess the point being that even in a legitimate sport,the judges can affect the outcome.
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Boogieman

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So what makes a sport?
« Reply #25 on: July 01, 2004, 01:48:29 PM »

about figure skating and gymnastics consider this:
each contestant starts with a max of 10 points.  then based on their performace (or lack there of) judges deduct points.  the one with less points deducted is the winner.  ( I really dont know if this matters to anyone but I thought it is interesting to bring up.)  The contestants are definitely athletes, however sport its not.  contest yes.  Its soley the judges interpritation that declares who wins and loses and in what order.
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