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Author Topic: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19  (Read 5254 times)

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euro60

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Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
« Reply #45 on: February 20, 2019, 01:27:27 PM »

Is the same true for the Carabao Cup final on Sunday? I sure hope not! That should be a great match (Chelsea-ManCity).

Not to mention that Sunday morning kicks off with a doozy in the Premiership (ManUnited-Liverpool)!
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Cockney Rebel

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Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
« Reply #46 on: February 20, 2019, 05:44:26 PM »

Yes, itís in ESPN+

Btw, Liverpool/Manure is not THE big match Sunday morning.
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euro60

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Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
« Reply #47 on: February 20, 2019, 10:40:41 PM »

If that is the case, and I'm not doubting what you say, I am completely dumbfounded. So you have the TV rights to this, and then decide not to broadcast it on TV (instead just streaming it)? Wow, just wow. I cannot imagine that if NBC had the TV rights, they'd just stream it. ESPN has multiple channels, and yet they cannot find a way somehow, somewhere, to put Chelsea-ManCity on the tube? Shows how much ESPN cares about football...

As to your snarky comment about ManCity-Liverpool not being THE big match on Sunday morning, I suppose you are referring to Arsenal-Southampton, and I get it as you are a die-hard Saints fan. But for the neutral viewer, the choice is pretty clear...
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"A blind faith in authority is the worst enemy of truth" - Albert Einstein (1901)

The Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra is one of Cincinnati's underappreciated treasures

Zafer Kaya

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Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
« Reply #48 on: February 21, 2019, 12:26:36 AM »

Not sure if you know this, but NBC does indeed have the rights to all the Premier League games and streams the majority of them.  Itís ON THE TUBE.  Itís just streamed to the tube which really makes no difference to the viewer. 

Now, what does suck is you have to pay extra for it.  But itís not like regular ESPN is actually free.

But this is exactly why many of us cut the cord.  You are paying a minimum extra $30 a month to get channels like ESPNDeportes and RSNís that are mostly awful call in shows.  ESPN+ is $5.00 a month.  Premier League Pass is $50 a year, so like $4 a month.

So you could go to streaming, add ESPN+ and Premier League Pass and see more things you really want, for cheaper. 

Dan

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Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
« Reply #49 on: February 21, 2019, 09:38:13 AM »

If that is the case, and I'm not doubting what you say, I am completely dumbfounded. So you have the TV rights to this, and then decide not to broadcast it on TV (instead just streaming it)? Wow, just wow. I cannot imagine that if NBC had the TV rights, they'd just stream it. ESPN has multiple channels, and yet they cannot find a way somehow, somewhere, to put Chelsea-ManCity on the tube? Shows how much ESPN cares about football...

This is a way for them to get viewers to subscribe. They bought the rights to something and they want YOU to subscribe to their service. If they put it on ESPN2, would you subscribe to their standalone app? No, you wouldn't. They could find space for it on the tube - they just don't want to. They want subscribers. How don't you see this?
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euro60

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Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
« Reply #50 on: February 21, 2019, 10:28:46 AM »

Surely I am behind the times. But I always thought that the goal was to get as many people as possible to watch the programming. And that would be to put it on one of their TV channels, not by simply streaming it.

Or put differently, if streaming is such a great idea, why let's just go ahead and delete all TV channels and streaming everything.

(Neither here nor there, but it reminds me of that great debate about too much traffic being on the interstate, and that adding lanes won't solve anything. Really? Then why not REDUCE the interstate to a single lane?)
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"A blind faith in authority is the worst enemy of truth" - Albert Einstein (1901)

The Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra is one of Cincinnati's underappreciated treasures

Kwyjibo

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Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
« Reply #51 on: February 21, 2019, 11:31:46 AM »

I find your disdain for all things streaming truly amusing and absurd.
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Dan

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Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
« Reply #52 on: February 21, 2019, 01:59:58 PM »

No, the goal is no longer to get as many people as possible to watch the programming. In the classic business models, or old business models, the idea was that if more people were watching, then you could charge your advertisers more, which is where your money was made. However, in today's world that model is broken as there are so many different places for eyeballs that the numbers of viewers of a particular program is so small that the advertisers aren't as interested.

Instead, what seems to be working as a potential business model is a subscription based service. Netflix seems to be the biggest, and people look at their subscriber numbers (almost 150 million) and then multiply that by the monthly costs of subscribing (say, $10) and realize Netflix is making $1.5 billion per month. Do you understand how much money that is? $18 billion per year is the new business model. Not pennies from advertisers.

So everyone, ESPN included, is seeing that and saying "let's get users to pay us to look at our content." Hence the FA Cup rights. I don't consider myself young or even knowledgeable of business practices or the TV and Film Industries, so I'm surprised to be explaining it.

Maybe it collapses, maybe it shifts, maybe there are other ideas in the pipeline. Personally I think the model breaks down when everyone is subscribing to numerous services and we all get annoyed, but it's also not going away. Bundles of services might work but we'll see.

As for Highways, you're missing the fundamental point. When a highway is expanded, a phenomenon called "induced demand" kicks in. This is to say that examining the demand of vehicles trying to use a highway in the existing condition shows the engineers that X people want to use the highway. If there are more people wanting to use the highway the formulas say "well then, add another lane, and there's more capacity, so then the problem is solved." But after building highways for a hundred years, we know now that Induced Demand isn't factored into that reasoning. Induced Demand is the demand that is brought about by expanding the highway. Meaning: if we expand the highway, X people won't want to use the highway - now X+Y people will, because they will think "hey, there's now 4 lanes of highway, surely there's room for me" but those Y people weren't thinking that when there were only 3 lanes for traffic. As for reducing the highway, well, that's actually a thing that is happening. Google the Embarcadero Freeway if you want to see something that's already happened, or the Sheridan Expressway that is supposedly happening now. We are realizing that Highways have a purpose - intercity transportation, shipping - but that they are terrible for local neighborhoods and awful for humans at the person-scale. Transportation solutions to traffic jams on highways are numerous, but American cities were built around the freeway so it's a long and slow scrape to get people to try other ideas. Cincinnati actually built a streetcar. Forgetting if it's successful or not, it's amazing that they even got it built...and good for them for doing so. It's a baby step but any progress is good.
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Zafer Kaya

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Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
« Reply #53 on: February 21, 2019, 02:51:30 PM »

Or put differently, if streaming is such a great idea, why let's just go ahead and delete all TV channels and streaming everything.

This is already happening.  In maybe three or four years streaming will be the dominant form of "TV."

It's not like I think streaming is so great.  It's that I'm puzzled why you think streaming is so bad.

The equation never really changes.  The content providers want as much control over their content as possible and to monetize it as much as possible.  The viewers want them to have all the control and to get it all for free.  Somewhere, there's a delivery form, revenue model, and price where both sides can agree.

That was true when TV challenged radio, and then cable took on over-the-air TV.  And now it's streaming.  And even in the same technology every content provider competes with others for your $$ and attention.  I fully expect that when streaming has taken over cable, they will fully turn the screws and we won't have month-to-month subscriptions and they'll start padding their services with useless content just like cable.  The streaming providers like YouTube.TV or Playstation Vue will be the same as FIOS or Spectrum are now.

Or it may be that YouTube.TV loses, because the content providers don't like them just like they don't like cable providers.  ESPN would much rather have me watch ESPN on their own app, where the control the content, they collect the money directly, they can track all my usage and they get to choose what ads to show me.

Or maybe the content creators will be like "Why do need any sort of channel as a middleman at all?"  People seem to be just fine paying watching racist fuckups do stupid things on youtube.  It costs nothing to produce that.

But anyway, the point is the equation is always the same.  Someone creates and/or owns content that people want to consume.  People will pay, one way or the other to consume it.  That has nothing to do with streaming.  It's the same arrangement we had with cable.

Nothing happens with streaming.  You still point your remote control at your TV and a show comes on.  The show will have shitty ads and/or they will charge you too much to see it.  There will be way more shitty shows than good shows.  Why does it matter at all if the show comes through a coax cable to the back of your TV or is wireless sent from your router?

euro60

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Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
« Reply #54 on: February 21, 2019, 10:50:10 PM »

Thanks for all the insightful comments, it really is an eye-opener to me. Like I said, I (now age 58) am surely behind the times.

As a complete aside, I was contacted today by the Cincinnati Business Courier, they are getting ready to do a "where are they now" story of the Class of 1999 of Forty Under 40, of which I was one of them. It FUCKING blows the mind. I was once an under 40 up-and-coming, and recognized for that. It seems like yesterday that I was at that luncheon where we the class of 1999 were recognized for that.

Now I am a senior partner in the law firm, and my general mind set about everything really is: don't change a thing! I like the way things are, and I want them to stay just like they are and DON'T CHANGE ANYTHING. You can transpose that to the TV watching landscape. I don't have NetFlix, or any other streaming service, and I'm not interested in it. I just want to watch what I want on my Spectrum cable service, period. I know that is not a realistic perspective, but I can't help the way I feel.

As a further, yet further, aside. Time. The most precious thing there is. And the only thing you cannot buy. If I knew back then (in 1999), I might have done certain things differently. But I'm not complaining, I like where I'm at in life.
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"A blind faith in authority is the worst enemy of truth" - Albert Einstein (1901)

The Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra is one of Cincinnati's underappreciated treasures

euro60

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Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
« Reply #55 on: February 23, 2019, 12:20:43 AM »

I noticed that the Chelsea-ManCity Carabao Final will be shown on ESPN, woohoo!
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"A blind faith in authority is the worst enemy of truth" - Albert Einstein (1901)

The Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra is one of Cincinnati's underappreciated treasures

Zafer Kaya

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Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
« Reply #56 on: February 23, 2019, 12:39:21 AM »

I noticed that the Chelsea-ManCity Carabao Final will be shown on ESPN, woohoo!

You sure about that?  Because I think itís only on ESPN+.  Donít shoot the messenger.

euro60

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Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
« Reply #57 on: February 24, 2019, 10:42:43 PM »

I noticed that the Chelsea-ManCity Carabao Final will be shown on ESPN, woohoo!

You sure about that?  Because I think itís only on ESPN+.  Donít shoot the messenger.
you are right... I had looked it up on line, and it was on ESPN's schedule,,, but then what it came to being, it was not. Instead, ESPN choose to have SportsCenter, 2 women college games on 2 channels, and some other stuff... So ESPN thinks it's a better choice to air 2 women college games on 2 channels than to air Chelsea-ManCity. Shows how much ESPN cares about soccer....
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"A blind faith in authority is the worst enemy of truth" - Albert Einstein (1901)

The Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra is one of Cincinnati's underappreciated treasures

MissKitty

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Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
« Reply #58 on: February 25, 2019, 08:16:33 AM »

I think ESPN is savvy enough to know that people passionate about soccer are willing to pay for it. IDK how many fans of women's college basketball there are that'd be willing to pay for it, but I'm guessing it isn't nearly as many, so those are the ones aired "for free."

We watched the Chelsea v City game at home, but it was also shown at plenty of area pubs, so you could always do that if you are anti-ESPN+.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2019, 08:20:30 AM by MissKitty »
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Zafer Kaya

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Re: English Premier League and other European football 2018/19
« Reply #59 on: February 25, 2019, 10:30:45 AM »

ESPN doesn't care about anything but $$.  They are losing a ton of subscribers, and they are a hugely expensive channel to operate because they are paying tons of money for all those rights to NBA, NFL, and college hoops. 

The way they are working around this is by charging cable and streaming companies more and more to carry ESPN (which gets passed on to you).  And by doing what MissKitty described-- charging more for premium content whenever they can.

Something like Carabao Cup is perfect for ESPN+ from their standpoint, because soccer in the US has a small, but intense audience.  The average blue collar sports guy does not care about soccer, but if you're into either team, or PL or soccer in general last week's game was a can't miss.  So they charge for it, and then on the regular channel they show something blandly satisfying where maybe no one is really into women's hoops but if it's on they'll watch it plus it fulfills other goals.

None of this really has to do with streaming.  If streaming did not exist, ESPN would have a premium cable channel.  And really, ESPN+ is just a premium cable channel.  You can't even get it unless you already have ESPN on cable or streaming provider.  So they want you to pay $8.00 PLUS a premium.  The only thing streaming has to do with it is that streaming is the cool new thing so ESPN is trying to sell that as a perk.  And they force you to use their app which builds their brand and helps them collect data.  Plus most people don't care because streaming is the same as cable to them.

I think ESPN is in trouble.  They're still making assloads of money but IMO they are already in like a late 1990's music industry death spiral.  People have alternatives to cable and many of them are willing to forgo ESPN.  So ESPN is making up for it by charging the remaining users more, which makes more people leave.  Plus there's pirate streaming sucking viewers just like there pirating CD's.

The formula that used to work for ESPN was they could show you tons of cheap shit.  Like you would watch *anything* on ESPN whether it was bowling or Australian Rules Football or some shitty college hoops game.  Because at least it was sports, and no one else had sports.  And they had ESPN Sports Center which was relatively cheap to produce, but you could get people to tune into it religiously just about every night.  It was so much better than the 5 minute news segment you'd get on local news.  But now with the internet, everyone knows what is happening in every game including highlights.

Nowadays, the only reason to tune into ESPN is if they have NFL football or something else.  But they pay an assload for that because everyone else wants it too.  There's no profit margin in the big sports events.  They're for hooking people in, and driving revenue to other things.  Like if Amazon is showing me NFL games, that's an incentive to get Prime but then Prime means I get cheap shipping on Amazon things so maybe I'll order more shit.  ESPN has nothing else.  If you only watch ESPN for the big games, and then don't watch women's softball or the ESPYS or one of the Two Guys Scream at Each Other shows, they are screwed.
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