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Author Topic: I have a question...  (Read 164821 times)

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Dan

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Re: I have a question...
« Reply #1995 on: January 10, 2018, 10:32:50 AM »

I don't think I've ever assumed that a stand up was necessarily telling me a TRUE story. I don't care if it's true. If I believe it's true and that makes it funnier, then that's great. But if they are just talking about something and it makes me laugh, regardless if it's a personal story or impersonal story, then they have succeeded. The point to me is to laugh, not to hear a personal story.

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Buzzstein

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Re: I have a question...
« Reply #1996 on: January 10, 2018, 11:25:09 AM »

anyone ever hear the term whiz bang before?  i shuddered when my sister in law said it.  she's always doing shit like that. 

My grandpa used to say it.
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daytime drinking

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Re: I have a question...
« Reply #1997 on: January 10, 2018, 01:35:56 PM »

I don't think I've ever assumed that a stand up was necessarily telling me a TRUE story. I don't care if it's true. If I believe it's true and that makes it funnier, then that's great. But if they are just talking about something and it makes me laugh, regardless if it's a personal story or impersonal story, then they have succeeded. The point to me is to laugh, not to hear a personal story.

it just bugs me that it's probably not true.  well that's just me.  but that's just not all i was talking about
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Zafer Kaya

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Re: I have a question...
« Reply #1998 on: January 11, 2018, 11:20:26 AM »

The kind of stuff that's supposed to be LOL-ish like whacky humor, prop humor, or impressions just annoy me.  Good stand-up for me tends to be more cleverly whimsical than hilarious.  I'll just kind of feel entertained and maybe chuckle at times without ever laughing, and I'll think about it later.  Same with written humor.  I don't dislike performance comedy, it's just a different kind of thing than real-life funny. 

There's an element of removal in performed comedy.  They have to set you up for the punchline, so #1 you're expecting something and #2 you're not in the moment, someone is telling you about the moment.  Whereas in real-life humor the set-up is actually what is happening at the time, so you didn't have to wade through a intro.  The comedy just comes out of nowhere.  When you TRY to be funny, you're never as funny.

It doesn't bother me if the stories they tell are true or not.  The story is just the set-up for the jokes to provide a structure.  It's the starting point they can riff off of.  So the story itself doesn't even have to be that whacky, it's the comedian's observation of the story that is funny.

For example, Patton Oswalt is famous for being a schlub, and will tell jokes about his college days about what a geek/loser he was.  I know they are somewhat exaggerated.  For example, he was in Sigma Chi, which was kind of a Southern prettyboy fraternity, and not in Psi Upsilon, which was the nerdy fraternity.  At the same time, I can also see the truth in his stories.  Because even in a weird, geeky college he stood out as the guy who wanted to be a stand-up comedian.  Everyone knew him and thought he was weird that way.  And he is definitely a loser/geek on the inside.  He was just extroverted and had the social skills to where he wasn't really that much of an outsider in real life, even if he was on the inside.  I'm guessing those skills are pretty important to his job as well.  Like, real losers don't become famous comedians.

In HS, a few of us started this humor magazine and there were some hilarious kids in that club.  But we were just really bad at it and the magazine was crap.  I think we figured this out after a couple issues and then spent our after-school club hours talking about comics until they said it didn't count as an academic activity anymore.  Anyway, one of the kids that was in that group was Chris Avellone, who I guess is a famous game designer.  And another one was Ashley Miller who wrote some of the Marvel movies.  So it's not like they weren't creative or couldn't write.  They actually make lucrative livings writing stuff.  They just had the kind of humor that doesn't work written out or told long-form.  They were just good with the quips.  Although who knows, maybe if they'd decided they wanted to be stand-ups they could have done it.  Like I said, Patton Oswalt used to suck too.  He was probably even less funny than our stupid high school humor magazine. 

daytime drinking

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Re: I have a question...
« Reply #1999 on: February 11, 2018, 08:49:14 PM »

how do i not be a douche about introducing music to my toddler?  i've read that they shouldn't be listening to nonsense music which is half of what i like.  they should be listening to mozart and shit.  i've been listening to a lot of jazz lately to mitigate this.  but jack white's like tchaikovsky right?  and my wife wants me to play the classic children's songs which, i have my opinions on commercialism but she does take to them.  it's not that big a deal to me, but i figured some of y'all mighten have figured this all out by now
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euro60

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Re: I have a question...
« Reply #2000 on: February 11, 2018, 11:06:48 PM »

Daytime, let me put it this way... if you feel strongly about certain music, just expose your kid(s) to it. When my kids were young, I found out that my son was not at all interested in music, but my daughter was, very much indeed, and it was a way of building a relationship with her (being a divorced dad). I started taking her to shows at a young age (8 or 9) to stuff like the Spice Girls and Lilith Fair (much to the chagrin of her mom, my ex), but it wasn't long when we started venturing into other things. I exposed her to the "alternative" stuff (in the early 00s) like the Vines and the Von Bondies and she ate it up. She was 12-13 then. Fast forward 15 years... as I'm sure you know, she now leads a band called Leggy, and I couldn't be prouder of her.
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Zafer Kaya

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Re: I have a question...
« Reply #2001 on: February 12, 2018, 11:15:12 AM »

IF I were wanting to push music on a kid, I would have them listen to regular children's music.  They're doing it right.  You want things with strong melodic lines, a regular sense of rhythm and that is fun and participatory.  It appeals to them and builds a love of music.  But also, it's a strong foundation to build upon as far as knowledge/vocabulary.

Starting a child off with jazz is like trying to expose your child to math by attempting to teach them calculus.  Take something fairly complicated and out there, like Blues for Alice.  It's a mutated 12 bar blues.  But it sounds nothing like Crossroads or whatever.  There's an evolution that happened.  Some dude was playing a 12 bar blues and got bored, so they changed the rhythm up a bit.  Then people got used to hearing that, so some other guy changed a chord.  Then later, another chord.  Until by the end, it was something really different. 

But, you can't really hear Blues for Alice unless you can hear the basic 12 bar blues underneath.  I mean, you can hear it in a literal sense.  You might even not think it sounds really random.  But to really appreciate that piece of music requires some context.  You have to hear the implied changes underneath.

Same thing with any jazz standard.  There's usually a pretty simple melody and basic chord structure underneath it.  That's why they play the head.  They go through it once straightforward so you have context and get the basic vibe, flow, and feel of the song.  Then they go off exploring in strange directions.  If you can't hear the simple stuff, you can't hear the hard stuff.


I think there's a degree to which we are biologically attuned to certain tones and rhythms.  But even pretty basic pop music has evolved way beyond that.  We have a Western tradition of music.  Someone who was somehow raised in a cave and exposed only to traditional African or Asian music is going to hear things completely differently.  They probably won't like it.

So yeah, IF I wanted my kid to have an intellectual appreciation of music, I would just play them a lot of music.  And mostly just regular kids music.

But, I probably wouldn't even bother.  Because I don't give a crap whether my kid likes music or not. 




 

euro60

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Re: I have a question...
« Reply #2002 on: February 12, 2018, 11:09:59 PM »

But, I probably wouldn't even bother.  Because I don't give a crap whether my kid likes music or not.
ZK, I don't know if you have kids, but for me it mattered quite a lot. Once I found out that my young daughter liked music (as I obviously do), it became hugely important to me as a way to connect with her. I never "pushed" it on her, it just happened, and as a divorced dad, it was a god-sent to me.
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"A blind faith in authority is the worst enemy of truth" - Albert Einstein (1901)

The Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra is one of Cincinnati's underappreciated treasures

Zafer Kaya

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Re: I have a question...
« Reply #2003 on: February 13, 2018, 12:59:33 AM »

If I found out my kids liked music, or sports, or drawing or anything like that of course I would encourage them and participate with them. Iím just saying it doesnít matter to me if my kid doesnít like music but likes baseball instead.

I donít think itís bad to intentionally try to foster an interest in music, either.  Just that I personally wouldnít go out of my way to do it.   

Butter

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Re: I have a question...
« Reply #2004 on: February 13, 2018, 07:26:02 AM »

If I found out my kids liked music, or sports, or drawing or anything like that of course I would encourage them and participate with them. Iím just saying it doesnít matter to me if my kid doesnít like music but likes baseball instead.

I donít think itís bad to intentionally try to foster an interest in music, either.  Just that I personally wouldnít go out of my way to do it.   

For me, it just sort of happened based on what I listen to.  They both like pop music, because you have terrible taste when you are 16.  That's just how things work.
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daytime drinking

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Re: I have a question...
« Reply #2005 on: February 13, 2018, 12:07:39 PM »

i don't care too much if my child doesn't develop an interest in music, i just want to avoid listening to beethoven.  i can deal with the children's songs because she seems to like them for some reason.  i just don't like classical music and would like to cultivate a jazz ear for myself.  i figure that's like killing birds with stones.  but, if it's that beneficial, hell, i'll try anything twice
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Zafer Kaya

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Re: I have a question...
« Reply #2006 on: February 13, 2018, 01:27:20 PM »

If you want to get into jazz yourself, I think the easiest way is to start with jazz standards.

There's a really good book called "The Jazz Standards" by Ted Gioia.  It's a list of the most famous standards.  For each one, he gives a little history of the song, usually some basic analysis for the layperson, and then some particularly definitive versions of them as suggestions for listening.  If you have Spotify, people have made playlists based on the book.

Or if you prefer the internet, go to jazzstandards.com.  It's got just about everything you'd need to know.  Lists, song history, chart information, composers, song and lyrical analysis, recommended versions, explanation of common concepts like blues and rhythm changes.

I would just start with the Great American Songbook.  Get one of those Ella Fitzgerald/Sarah Vaughan/Frank Sinatra sings Cole Porter/Gerswhin/Berlin/Rodgers anthologies.  Spend a couple of days listening to it.  Then use one of the two above sources to find a jazz instrumental version of some of the songs.

The other way to do it is to sneak in through the rock door.  Start listening to Steely Dan.  All the guys on those records are crazy awesome jazz-influenced players.  Just follow them down the path and start listening to Walter Becker, Donald Fagan, Larry Carlton, Denny Dias, Skunk Baxter, etc.  The only thing is, you end up listening to a lot of Fusion.  And I personally can't stand fusion.  Other than Carlton, who really is much more of a jazz-influenced blues player than a prog-rock/fusion guy.

The post-bop stuff is a lot different than traditional/early jazz.  Which is different than the bebop 40's/50's/60's sound.  I think that when most people think about jazz, they are actually talking about the bebop stuff.  But when they try to get into jazz, they listen to the post-bop stuff like Miles Davis and Jaco for some reason.

daytime drinking

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Re: I have a question...
« Reply #2007 on: February 14, 2018, 09:30:42 AM »

i suppose i'm not that interested.  just need a few more old hands to call upon.  i really like brother thelonious and coltrane.  what did kerouac bop to? 
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foolsgold

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Re: I have a question...
« Reply #2008 on: February 14, 2018, 09:43:36 AM »

It sounds like digging into the Blue Note label might be a good jumping off point.  Start with Lee Morgan's In Search of New Lands and Miles Davis' Kind of Blue.  Both, and especially the latter, are standard bearers for the label and among their most widely known releases.  They both have that fedora wearing, jazz cigarette smoky 1950's NYC jazz club feel to them.  I'm not all that into jazz, but that era does catch my ear.  To me, it sounds what I want jazz to sound like.

Kerouac released a jazz album of him reading his poetry while Steve Allen plays piano in the background.  That's pretty cool too.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YhveH2yuuI
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Kwyjibo

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Re: I have a question...
« Reply #2009 on: February 14, 2018, 10:05:03 AM »

what did kerouac bop to? 

Playboy would be my guess.
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